Talk:Frances the Mute

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This page was proposed for deletion December 2004. The archived discussion is available at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Frances the Mute.

Contents

[edit] Cassandra Gemini

Does anyone have the quote from Jon or Juan stating that most of Cassandra was the reult from a jam they did? Becuase this would disprove the theory that the entire thing was written by Omar. Arranged, but not written.

[edit] The Something Awful review

The Something Awful review has been removed, with the editor claiming it's because SA is a humour site, not a music review site. As far as I'm concerned, that's a rubbish argument. The piece is quite clearly a review, and it seems to me that the editor was just offended by the prospect of a negative review. So I'm reinstating it. If the editor wants to provide a cohesive argument as to why the review shouldn't be included, then he can do so here. --Hn 07:22, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not horribly averse to including the link to the Something Awful review, but I'm sure you would agree that SA is not a professional music review site. See: here. --Dalkaen 15:40, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
Something Awful writes music reviews as negative as possible in order to get over zelous fans to respond with hate mail which they could later use for another comedy update. Their reviews are not real nor professional.
Something Awful writes these reviews purely for humour. They aren't serious. That guy may not like the album, but the way he wrote the review was purely intended for humour.

[edit] Geminni or Gemini?

The album lists the final track(s) as Cassandra Geminni and not Gemini. Is this a mere mistake or should the spelling be changed in the article?

Yeah, the album was misprinted. The Mars Volta official site lists it with the proper spelling, and Music Brainz, an mp3 tagging site, has this annotation for its listing of Frances the Mute: "Casandra Gemini is misspelled on the CD. Check the Mars Volta site for the official track listing to see that it is, in fact, spelled 'Gemini.'" --Dalkaen 11:23, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tracklist dispute

Cassandra Gemini is over 30 minutes long, so the tracklist that the anonymous user keeps adding is impossible. Miranda That Ghost Isn't Holy Anymore is composed of multiple movements, yes, but so is Cygnus...Vismund Cygnus. They're not separated into different tracks, and Cassandra Gemini wouldn't have been either, but they had to to avoid the album being classified as an EP. --Dalkaen 22:43, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

when i played FtM on windows media play it gave me an incorrect track list, where the widow was listed as track 7 or something. i knew it was wrong, but other people might not. could be the cause of the confusion. Nateji77 13:26, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
the track listing that I keep adding is the one listed on the CD that I have, as it appears when the disc is read. I know they split the cd up to avoid being screwed by the record company, but why not have the track list as it literally appears on the cd? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.1.220.130 (talk) 23:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

The whole point is that the Tracklist on the back of the CD does not correspond to the actual divisions. In addition the names that show up when you put them in a computer are completely wrong altogether. Nothing else needs to be added. Zopwx2 01:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed original research

The following information was littering this page, and had grown into a number of other character articles even though there's plenty of room to include any confirmed character information on this page, rather than making permanent stubs. Moved here to clean up the page (and L'Via L'Viaquez). -Silence 21:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional Characters

WARNING: the following is only a theory

Article about concept, by Farseer RiZa ([1]) This album is truly a work of art. Not just musical, but it tells a heartbreaking story of a lost soul who's mother is killed in a horrific way. And if you have no idea what's going on in the story, you'll probably hate the album as I once did. It's fully of annoying ambiance, but if you read through this then listen to the album, you can almost feel the story come to live in the ambiance. The Mars Volta are lyrical and emotional geniuses. This is the future of music!


Frances The Mute Below is the last few words on the Frances The Mute (the song) and it obviously is talking about Frances being killed, and how she is killed. She is gutted and hung by her ankles and her entrails are cut out, they remove her unborn child...

Set foot inside a parlour, to find her drunken by receipts,

He held her by the ankles,

Gutted at the nave, yes gutted and depraves,

He tied a rope around her legs,

And let her hang for seven days,

This never happened, but I saw you leave,

And crawl into a bed of broken windows.

The first song is mainly about his mothers death, but note: The soft sounding introduction at the end of the song. Notice that it seems not quite complete or clear, this is a metaphor for Cygnus' blindness, he doesn't see what he's getting himself into as he pursues his mother's murderers.


Cygnus.... Vismund Cygnus Cygus is the lead character of the story, he is the unborn child who has now grown up and has a thrust for revenge. He starts to track down the murderers who gutted his mother, but along the way he gives up hope and starts using drugs to escape from reality, you can hear this at (0:39) in the song as a large outburst of music. The lyrics that are Spanish in this song talk about him wanting to punish who did this, but his inability to do so whilst so dependant on drugs.


The Widow This song is about the severity of his drug addiction and his dependence on his dealer. He resorts to prostitution to fuel his drug habit. He contracts a STD (Not sure if it's from the needles or the prostitution). In the lyrics below he is obviously talking about his dealer (verse 1 & 2) and the last verse is about his prostitution.

He's got fasting black lungs,

Made of clove splintered shards,

They're the kind that will talk,

Through a wheezing of coughs,


And I hear him every night,

In every pore,

And every time he just makes me warm,

Freeze without an answer,

Free from all the shame,

Must I hide?

Cause I'll never,

Never sleep alone.


L'via L'viaquez L'via L'viaquez, Who is Cygnus' aunt, L'via being her first name... L'via was there when his mother was murdered. She tells the story to him. However, she is soon killed by the same group who killed his mother for telling Cygnus about the group. Also, in this song is Cygnus's grandmother who is called Miranda. She also tells him of his mother and where to find the people who killed her.

L'Via, daughter of Miranda, your last name has changed (itself).

L'Via, without eyes you want to give me a story without my mother.

I only have to tell you the pain at night says...

Only the dress was left (The dress was left by itself/alone)* I washed the blood off.

L'Via, don't stop resting. In the streets you walk, ¿Who will follow you? (¿Who will chase you?)**


L'Via, they want to kill you. Machete teeth, rooster head. (You lie... of machete)***

L'Via, sleeping, you enter. Open your eyes, everything will change.

L'Via, dreaming of revenge I swear, they will pay.

(English)

I only have one hour, and I sleep, finished.

For 25 years past, the bodies here remain, trembling.

I ate the blood, I ate the body.

My tears. I break the mirror.


Note: The Spanish used in the song is not "proper," many words and constructions are used incorrectly, often as if they were literal translations of an English phrase brought into Spanish by someone who does not know the language. However, the resulting lyrics carry subtle meanings, and are open to more interpretation than if they were written in perfectly grammatical Spanish. Some parts of the song cannot be heard clearly, the segments in parentheses are alternative meanings.

  • "Solo se quedo el vestido" means "Only the dress was left," but it is also a poetic form equivalent to English "Alone, the dress was left behind."
    • "Persegir" means to chase, hunt, or follow ("segir").
      • On the album, the first word is either "mientes" or "dientes." The former means "you lie," the latter means "teeth." The second part says "de machete," which means "of machete."

Cassandra Geminni A, B, C, D & E The last song, Cassandra Geminni is about his revenge, and boy does he get revenge... People have speculated that Cassandra a name of his mother's & aunt's murderer, if not the leader of the group that killed them. There are 25 all together and he kills them all using his “icepick” (penis): He infects them all with the STD he picked up from when he was a prostitute, most likely by sleeping with them all. (As Cassandra is a girl's name).

However, the songs mood soon changes in part D where he figures out what he's actually done. All this time he's been searching for a family, somewhere to call home and it was in front of him the whole time. His aunt and her side of the family were perfectly fine before Cygnus started his quest. As a result of his meddling he got them all killed. The song ends with his loneliness. This is represented by the last song's repartition of the broken up introduction to the album (Which was at the end of Frances The Mute). However, the introduction is now clear, without distortion. This is a metaphor for how Cygnus feels. Lost and alone, but he sees what he has done now.

If anyone else has any theory's about this album, please speak up! E-mail me at: [farseerrirza@hotmail.co.uk]

[edit] Frances The Mute (Character)

Frances the Mute is a character from the 2005 album by The Mars Volta of the same name. Frances is the mother of Vismund Cygnus, who was born as Frances was killed by L'Via, her sister. Some think that Frances is names "The Mute" as a reference to her being dead and unable to "speak" with anyone, yet still leaving behind a story of her own.

[edit] Vismund Cygnus

Vismund Cygnus is a character in the story of The Mars Volta's 2005 album, Frances The Mute.

WARNING: the following is only a theory

                                   MIRANDA
                              (mother of Frances
                             and L'Via, grandmother
                                  of Cygnus)
                                      .
                                      .
                       FRANCES  .  .  .  .  .  L'VIA L'VIAQUEZ
                     (daughter of              (daughter of  
                    Miranda,sister             Miranda, sister
                      of L'Via,                  of Frances)                
                      mother of 
                       Cygnus)
                          .
                          .           
                    VISMUND CYGNUS
                   (son of Frances,
                     grandson of
                      Miranda)


The song that bonds the closest with Vismund Cygnus is 'Cygnus...Vismund Cygnus'.

See the lyrics here.

[edit] Miranda (mother of Frances)

Miranda is the grandmother of Vismund Cygnus, and mother of L'Via L'Viaquez and Frances (the Mute) in The Mars Volta's 2005 album "Frances the Mute." The fourth track on the album centers around Vismund Cygnus receiving a message from Miranda about his mother and those who killed her.

[edit] Intended vs CD tracklisting

I was under the impression that the tracklisting which has eight Cassandra movements is the intended and that the tracklisting that has four Miranda movements and eight Cassandra is the iTunes version. See, the CD actually didn't list and tracknames. All we really know is that there are five real songs: Cygnus...Vismud Cygnus, The Widow, L'via L'viaquez, Miranda that ghost just isn't holy anymore, and Cassandra Geminni The important this is that it's widely accepted that Cassandra starts on "Pour Another Icepick" So... change needed?

[2] The start of that thread is what is said on the wiki, but reading further sounds off for mods and fans alike that the aforementioned way is the right one.

I'm sorry, but my CD has Miranda... divided into 4 tracks, and Cassandra Gemini into 5. They're labelled exactly as appears on the back of the CD case. The first three songs are each on their own track, for a total of 12. Perhaps the discrepancy is due to differing versions of the album being released in multiple regions? I'm in the US (and I purchased my album here). BlackTerror 03:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
that's fine and good, but if you actually listen to the cd, you can hear there's a sharp change of pace and momentum when you switch between trakck 4 and track 5. Whereas tracks 5-12 flow togeather smoothly. Miranda actually sounds vaguely incomplete, as a guitar line appears in the lead out of the song. User:Vespertilio

According to [3], the track listing on the CD is:

  1. Cygnus... Vismund Cygnus
  2. The Widow
  3. L'Via L'Viaquez
  4. Miranda, that ghost just isn't holy Anymore
  5. Cassandra Gemini I
  6. Cassandra Gemini II
  7. Cassandra Gemini III
  8. Cassandra Gemini IV
  9. Cassandra Gemini V
  10. Cassandra Gemini VI
  11. Cassandra Gemini VII
  12. Cassandra Gemini VIII

and the splitting of songs on the CD has nothing to do with movements. Cassandra Gemini is the only song that is split, and it is split into tracks 5-12. Ubern00b 20:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone tried to match the above tracklisting with the intended one, with 1-1 correspondence? Saying time X:XX to X:XX of track Y corresponds to intended track Z Part B would really help with the understandability of the issue.
There is no official word as to where exactly the movements begin and end.Zopwx2 22:41, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Right, but any unofficial attempts? - BlackTerror 01:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
sure, speculate all you want here: [4]

[edit] Frances the Mute (the Song)

Does anyone have a citation for the idea of FtM the Song being the 'intended' first track of the album?

No, it's really just an inteoretatuib,

I just know its common knowledge on the comatorium boards that it was supposed to be the first track, even though I thought it worked better at the end. Zopwx2 13:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


Go buy the issue of guitar world with Jimmy Page on the cover, there's an interview with Omar in it and he says it's supposed to open the album in the interview.


that's really weird, I agree with dude above^, I think it would sound great at the end after the crazy hectic-ness of C.G., I find it kind of a relaxing song overall. And Cygnus is just such an intense opener, it really starts things off perfectly, it would be hard to see it any other way.

[edit] Drug Use

I think the section where it says "Frances the Mute is the first album that Cedric and Omar have made sober." should be changed or taken out unless someone has some proof or a quote.

everyone knows they do drugs they even claimed that they improvised most of Acrobatic Tenement with ATD-I because they were so "loaded"

but i've also heard that they (cedric and omar) went clean after julio died im also looking out for the overall quality of wiki

I've read the same, although I would say 'clean' not 'sober' - at least in the UK you can't use sober to mean free from drugs, which is what they are. Personally, I don't object to unreferenced material if I know it is true. Damiancorrigan 21:48, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Sober would also mean free from alcohol which I doubt they are --XMajinx 01:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Being paid for an EP?

Does anyone have a reference for the idea that they would have been paid for an EP if it had only had 5 tracks? Damiancorrigan 22:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Album Chronology

It was inconsistent, on some pages A Missing Chromosome is included, on some pages it wasn't. It is debatable whether AMC should be included, but I have taken the despotic decision to include it. Damiancorrigan 22:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Considering it was only distributed to radio stations I have a hard time leaving it in the offical album chronology. Zopwx2 08:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I thought about that, but Wikipedia is not a buyers' guide. The release exists, with full artwork and everything. The problem is that the AmC has an album box, and it links to Frances and Scabdates - so if you go back from AMC and forward from Frances, you got to different albums. At least now you don't do that. What else would you suggest, removing the album box from the AMC page? Damiancorrigan 10:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I'll just emphasize the fact that it isn't available to the public in the AMC article to avoid any confusion. Zopwx2 02:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
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