Talk:Fox

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Contents 1 Fox hunting myths 2 Identifying a fox 3 Note 4 Clean-up 5 Genera 6 Unknown fox species 7 Hibernation 8 Fritzi 9 vocalization 10 As a Feminine Sex Symbol 11 Cleanup 12 Picture and table 13 picture-mother-load 14 interbreeding? 15 Fake Photo 16 Famous fictional foxes 17 2788888888888888888888 and gargantuan and antelope? 18 common names and actual relationships in the Canidae 19 little stuff 20 Tribe? 21 Intelligence

[edit] Fox hunting myths

a note on something to put in here: it's often claimed by proponents of fox hunting that when foxes attack livestock they kill everything rather than only what they need to eat. This has been stated as false by David Attenborough, amongst others. -- Tarquin 14:09 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)

That fact is true but is often misconcepted by ignorant people who are simply trying to "put down" the fox.

If a fox was to get into a livestock pen (such as chickens) it will kill every thing it can. This is not through malice or blood thirst as people may say. The fox will then take each animal one by one and hide it or bury it for futre food. Tekana 12:58, 16 August 2005 (U

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.165.71.229 (talk) 00:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Identifying a fox

Does anybody know the fox in the image? Is it really a red fox? (Compare http://www.northern.org/artman/publish/slide14.shtml ) It looks very different from the animal that I know as a red fox. -- Cordyph 17:08 Mar 28, 2003 (UTC)

I don't know anything about foxes, but I got this picture from http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/animals/anim0611.htm where it is identified as a red fox, vulpes vulpes. --Amillar

Maybe that it is a rare colour variant or subspecies. It is definitely not a common red fox. Anyone out there knowing more about this topic? -- Cordyph 14:10 Mar 29, 2003 (UTC)

I still don't know much about foxes :-) but I found a better picture we can use. --Amillar

I'm pretty sure that this is an Arctic Fox on the pic. --Conti

What's the difference, except that the coat is light (which could be due to lighting) and that it's fat (ate too much critters last week)? Both Amillar's and your photos show a clear white belly. --Menchi 08:41 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

Perhaps this picture is just too ambiguous. I removed the caption. Amillar 13:59 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

Good thinking-it's difficult to tell if it's a lighting effect or really Arctic. jimfbleak 14:01 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

At least it is definitively not a Red Fox, the fox on the pic has too small ears. Either it's an Artic Fox or another not so well known fox species. Conti 16:51 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

I just realized that you're talking about the lower photo and not the upper one! :-D It looks like a colourless raccoon! Yeah, it doesn't look like an adult Red Fox. But it doesn't look like Artic Fox [1] either. Artic Fox has pure white coat, this unknown fox's coat is brown. It has a dark snout and nose, whereas only Artic Fox's nose is black, and Red Fox's snout's button-half is pure white. Almost all Foxes have enormous ear, this unknown one is apparently very young, before his ears even developed. I looked at about 600 fox photos, and found no fox with an entirely black snout. --Menchi 16:45 24 May 2003 (UTC)

Yep, I'm talking about the lower photo. And I'm really sure that this is a fox or at least some other doglike animal. The picture you are showing is definitively a fennek, you can see that from the big ears. Artic foxes change their fur and the color of their fur during the year, they can have indeed very dark and even black fur during some time of the year [2]. Maybe we should simply change the picture to a more clearly one. -- Conti 17:21 May 24, 2003 (UTC)

I still don't know the species. I checked dozens of images of Red Foxes, Silver Foxes, Grey Foxes, Arctic Foxes - without any result. I agree that it is NOT an arctic fox. Even in its summer fur the arctic fox looks completely different than the animal on the picture. -- Cordyph 14:18 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's another one of Arpingstone's plastic models, only with fur this time. :) Tannin

I just looked in a book on foxes at my local library. Yes, the lower picture is a red fox. The book said these color variations can even happen within one litter. For example, two red/white pups, one red/black pup, and one silver/black pup, all in the same litter. (Sometime we just have to resort to looking at those dead trees... :-) This agrees with the original NOAA attribution, and I'm inclined to think that the guys going out there photographing these animals have a better chance of knowing what they are looking at than we do. -- Amillar 23:39 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. I just added "colour variation" to the caption, so that readers will not be too confused about the different looks of the two foxes. -- Cordyph 08:25 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Should the sentence or two about the Red Fox's coloration perhaps be put on its own separate page? -- Nixve 20:33, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It may be a racoon dog.--70.165.71.229 00:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Or a hybrid of certain foxes.--70.165.71.229 01:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The picture is of a red fox. --Michael Johnson 01:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Can red and arctic foxes mix?--70.165.71.229 12:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Note

When you link to articles in other languages, note that this article is not on any specific species or genus. Andres 15:32, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC) This animal is a cross fox

[edit] Clean-up

This article is listed as needing clean-up. Should it still be so listed? If so, why? Quadell (talk) 05:12, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Genera

There are a few genera with little information, particularly Lycalopex, Pseudalopex, and Dusicyon and this seems to be due to some disagreement among taxonomists.

In particular, the animal here called Pseudalopex vetulus (the Hoary Fox) is described on this page [3] as Dusicyon vetulus, and elsewhere as Lycalopex vetulus.

Here the genus Dusicyon is described as only containing the extinct Falkland Island fox. This should be revised to mention the various different taxonomies of South American foxes. --Saforrest 03:13, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Unknown fox species

Which species is the fox in these photographs? ‣ᓛᖁᑐ 20:08, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'd say it's either a Gray Fox or a Cape Fox, but I'm not sure.. --Conti|✉ 20:24, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

Ah, it must be a gray fox or an island fox. Cape foxes are much more slender. ‣ᓛᖁᑐ 20:48, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Hibernation

I looked up this page to find out whether foxes hibernate. (Another source reports that red foxes don't. --81.187.165.108 10:50, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I like foxes!

[edit] Fritzi

This is a very interesting website about a fox kept as a pet by a woman in Germany (I believe, but I don't understand German). I think this link may be relevant - or at least it's very interesting! - Stormwatch 16:59, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Fritzi was a fox from Luxembourg, when you have any questions please contact us by Fritzis website > www.fritzi.lu > Kontakt. We answer all the the questions Thank you

[edit] vocalization

I have seen a fox seemingly imitate an owl. I live in Orleans, on Cape Cod. The call was the standard 'who, who who who who, whoooo' Or, Oooo. This was outside my window, one bright morning. I wonder why a fox should make this sound. I also I hear this same sound, in the dark, at night. And it is answered, across the river. Local experts dismiss this as fantasy. I have sought an independent source to no avail.

Another thing, the article mentions all the vocalizations but not the famous 'yiff' which I could swear comes from foxes.

"Yiff" is not a real word for a sound foxes make--it was made up by someone roleplaying a fox on FurryMUCK, an online game. The fox's "bark" or "yip" is probably the sound that inspired the furry fandom word (which is usually used as a euphemism for sex, not a fox vocalization). --Krishva 03:41, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] As a Feminine Sex Symbol

In American (USA) slang, an attractive woman is sometimes referred to as a "fox" (though not in front of her -- that would be considered crass and rude). I also know for a fact that in Chinese folklore, foxes are also associated with seductive females (usually of magical origin or with magical power). Anyone know other instances of this? And any idea how such associations come about?

~~ Kitsune ~~

Perhaps it has something to do with the Japanese legends about foxes (in Japan known as kitsune)? Theres an exellent wiki page about them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune) so i won't go into details, but there are many legends in Japan about foxes shanging shape into beautiful men or women in order to seduce humans and drain them of their energy/lifeforce. This could explain why it's alright to describe somone as "a foxy lady", but not to call them "a real fox" directly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.66.220.49 (talk • contribs).

While we're guessing ...! ;-) In General American English, the vowels of "fox" and of - excuse me, you may consider this vulgar - "fucks" are very similar. So my guess is that calling a sexy lady a "fox" is a pun. yoyo 02:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I did some cleanup on the page; it might be a good idea to incorporate some of the information in the external links, but at present I don't have the patience to do it. Do you think it needs more cleanup? Josh 05:40, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure. I think it could possibly be laid out better, though. Thanks for helping! ‣ᓛᖁᑐ 21:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture and table

• I've removed the cleanup tag, since this article has clear, concise text. However, I think a picture and a table of info (they're usually coloured red- like the one on Dog) would make this page much better. --Julie-Anne Driver 20:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

• Compare the classification table with that for Dog. That one includes the Trinomial classification of the domestic dog. Is there a wikipedia standard for these classification tables? If so, does it mandate including a binomial or trinomial classification where appropriate? And are all foxes binomially "Canis vulpes"? yoyo 02:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] picture-mother-load

here is a real good website with TONS of pictures. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://animals.timduru.org/dirlist/fox/GrayFox_41-Perching_on_branch_high.JPG&imgrefurl=http://animals.timduru.org/dirlist/fox/&h=600&w=800&sz=331&tbnid=-LZ8Itl_aPA2GM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=142&hl=en&start=21&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgray%2Bfox%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[edit] interbreeding?

Can foxes mate with domestic dogs and have fertile offspring?...

• No, they can't do that with any animal besides other foxes. Different kind. Agape

• Yes, they can mate and produce offspring, but these may be sterile. My wife had a pet, from an Australian breeder of pedigreed Pomeranians whose prize bitch was served by a dog fox (species: Red Fox, introduced to Australia by the British) who broke into the enclosure. There were only two pups in the litter. The breeder kept one and my wife's mother took the other as a pet for her daughter. This was in 1965. The pet, called Vixen, used to climb the ladder in the hayshed. She was killed in an accident in 1973 or 1974. We have B&W photos somewhere. yoyo 02:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Are you sure about that? There's no room for doubt? Every source I've ever heard has said that foxes can't mate with dogs. Agpae

[edit] Fake Photo

The photo of the fox with the rabbit looks fake. I believe the fox is stuffed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.21.28.14 (talk • contribs) 7 July 2006 (UTC)

The photo is real. The fox and rabbit were alive. I chased the fox away after a while. It was not at all perturbed by my standing ten feet away with a camera. Oosoom ^Talk to me 10:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

"It was not at all perturbed by my standing ten feet away with a camera." The same likely could not be said for the rabbit. ;) 209.179.168.34 04:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Famous fictional foxes

Is there any reason why the section on famous fictional foxes can't be split out as its own article? I can see how it might be possible for the factional fox part of the article to swamp the biological fox part of the article. Ted^Talk/_{Contributions} 15:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with that. We should use a more common article name, tho, like Foxes in fiction (see Wolves in fiction). --Conti|✉ 16:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2788888888888888888888 and gargantuan and antelope?

A fox is a member of any of 2788888888888888888888 species of rather gargantuan omnivorous canids?

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a fox is not an antelope.

[edit] common names and actual relationships in the Canidae

per a revert of some recent material:

i know that i didn't integrate my ideas in the best possible way with the existing article, but i think it still needs to be said. look up a sample of robert wayne's genetic research on canids (http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/wayne2.htm); to call one dog a "fox" and another "wolf" tells you little if it doesn't inform you of some relationship between them. most african and asian jackals, while fox-like, freely interbreed with domestic dogs (genus Canis); the simien jackal is now known by all rights to be a wolf; the extinct falkland island wolf is also freely referred to as a fox; and many south american "foxes", while a distinct group of canids, are actually much closer to the genus Canis (dogs, wolves, jackals) and Lycaon than to Vulpes or Alopex. there are several major lineages within the Canidae who share no close living ancestors but express primitive, typically "foxy" traits - the bat-eared fox and the gray fox, for instance.

anyway, what i mean to say is that some mention might be made of the fact that the word "fox" doesn't refer to just one particular kind of animal - at least, not unless it's used in the particular, as in "red fox", or "gray fox", or "crab-eating fox". and this should be noted.

that is all.  ;) Metanoid 20:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your point. There has been an effort in recent years to bring common names more into line with the actual taxanomic position of species, so problems you are referring to will decline with time. In the context of Wikipedia these things are best dealt with by redirects and disambutation pages. -Michael Johnson 23:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

very true! Metanoid 04:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

foxes arecat like not 50% cat 50% dog

[edit] little stuff

changed section title Ecobalance to Conservation. i'm pretty green myself, but even i think that comes off as a bit, well - hippyish! :) i removed the final sentence of General characteristics - "Foxes are also coming near houses searching food at arctic area in wintertime when we have -40 Celsius degrees" - by i-know-not-who, as it seems uninformative and devoid of context (no offense! :p) Metanoid 19:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tribe?

Maybe I don't know much about biological nomenclature, but I've never heard the word "Tribe" used . . . I thought that Vulpini was a "sub-family" of the Family Canidae. Is "Tribe" an accepted scientific term? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.162.245.172 (talk) 21:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Intelligence

Can anyone add a comment on the intelligence of foxes? Even if it's just to disregard the commonly-thought 'cunning' nature of the animals. TomGreen 21:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)