Wikipedia talk:Former featured articles

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[edit] Page created

I have created this page, not dissimilar from the Wikipedia:Featured articles page, of Former featured articles. I did this in part for convenience (as the only way to track down what had been a featured article was to dig through the archive - which is exactly what I had to do to create this page). I believe a list like this is important because it illustrates that a page can evolve both ways, and that wikipedia standards have changed over the years.

I also created a shortcut for it, tweaked the {{featuredtools}} template, and added references to it on the various FA-related pages. The only time it should be edited is if a page has been voted to be demoted, or conversely, has been promoted to featured article status. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson 06:52, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Need to point to article in it's state as "featured" not current "demoted" state

Can we please link to an example of the article as it was when it was "featured" rather than pointing to the current article? It would be nice to be able to identify what the article looked like when it was "featured". (No record of its featured status is/can be indicated in the page history.). -- Serge Dupouy 21:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Ahoy. To access the featured version of an article, simply look at the article's original successful nomination page, look at the date it was promoted, and then look for a version around that date from the history.
I feel it would be innapropriate to link the featured version - this is a list of articles that used to be featured, not an archive of formerly featured articles. Wikipedia is a breathing, growing thing; rather than permalinking a version of the page, it seems perfectly reasonable to show it as it is now as it is done everywhere else here - Wikipedia:Featured article does not show the "featured" version, but the page as it is now. It is up to users to see what the featured criteria is now, to improve the article accordingly, rather than just trying to revert it to a previously approved version. Accessing a previously approved version of a page may also be entirely unhelpful as featured criteria has dramatically changed over the years. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> - 00:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Repromotions

Where does Provinces of Thailand go? It is a former featured article, and it was repromoted, but it was repromoted to a featured list. Does it belong in the repromoted section Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 23:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

No. Its a bit of an anomoly, really. The re-promoted section is for articles re-promoted back to Featured Articles. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fake FA's

I found (easily) 2 articles that had the {{formerFA}} tag but are not in the nomination logs. There are probably more. TimL 02:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect. See my note on your talk page. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's with the bolding?

Excuse my ignorance, but why are some of the former FAs listed bold, while others aren't? If there's a good reason, we should probably state it on the Project Page for the benefit of readers. --Alex S 02:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Those are probably the ones that appeared on the main page. Raul654 02:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The explination is (has been) at the bottom (the "Notes" section). --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The WP:FA page has abandoned this practice—should we do the same? Punctured Bicycle 04:31, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Feh. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 10:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
The FA page still bolds articles that have appeared on the main page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why not revert?

Jesus, there are a lot of fallen articles here. Why is this even allowed to happen? It would be so easy to check out the date the articled were First pronouced featured, and revert back to then! Sure, a lot of edits would be lost, but it seems by far the lesser of two evils... There better be a strongly valid reason why we aren't doing this - Jak (talk) 16:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Many of these articles were not removed because they got worse but because the standards for what shouydl count as a FA have gone up. That said there are surly a number of articles that have become worse and fallen off. I suspect that some of these are the results of contentious edit wars (disagreements are a good way to have an article trashed). I do agree that there should be a wikiproject for fixing up former FAs I mean here is a list of articles that are at least close it. Seems like a nice way to add 170 or so FAs with less effort. Dalf | Talk 02:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What was the first featured article on wikipedia?

--Greasysteve13 08:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article count

I have been watching the FA count for a few weeks now and it seems that so far this year the demotions have keep pace with the promotions. However the count of articled demoted here does not seem to be keeping up. Is the (currently 331) number correct? Dalf | Talk 05:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the number (332 after English poetry) is correct - I track it (as well as the FA count) daily. The demotions in January seem to be at the same pace as promotions because we had a backlog over the holidays, with a higher number of demotions falling into January. Also, the FA number at Jan 1 was 1208, so promotions are growing. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Consolidating category and list

Wikipedia:Former featured articles and Category:Wikipedia former featured articles (I worked through this list from Gimmetrow and consolidated it into work categories below - skip over this.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name changes

Done Starting list of name changes that need to be fully addressed (fix redirects, find original FAC, etc) FARCs found and updated on these.

  • This was changed back to Supply and demand today. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Need help finding the missing FACs above - all double redirects corrected. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

    • FARCs all sorted on the above list, found all the FACs I can. Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Need admin help sorting this out - new name does not follow MOS, I can't move because old name exists.

Um is there a need to move the old FAC and FARC? Template:FormerFA and Template:FormerFA2 both have optional parameters for specifying the subpage names in case they differ from the article names: {{FormerFA|oldfacsubpage|oldFARCsubpage}}, or {{FormerFA2|oldfacsubpage|oldFARsubpage}}. The new Template:ArticleHistory requires the full link to be specified, so it's not a problem here either.
Understood - the reason I'm moving this time only is that, as bot work and templating proceeds, it's very hard for me to match the category with the FFA list when they have different names. By moving these old ones, I can make everything jive. Otherwise, it's harder for me to track who's on first. I recognize it won't be needed in the future, once we get things settled. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Moved both of them. Yomanganitalk 23:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
All fixed by Yomangani - moved back to Strategic management per Taxman's comments on talk page. Thanks !! Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the missing FACs, I noticed when looking for one the other day that quite often in the days before FAC subpages (11 out of 25 articles for April 2004) the FAC discussion was removed from Wikipedia:Featured article candidates when the article was promoted, but not added to the correct archive. You'll probably need to look back through the history of this page; if you know the date use &offset=YYYYMMDDHHMMSS to save having to click through many pages, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates&dir=prev&offset=20031123000000&limit=500&action=history
Over my still-kinda-newbie-in-spite-of-my-editcount head. I saw somewhere someone mentioned a script I could add to my monobook to help locate these things - I may have to get up on that. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes What links here on the (unredirected) old article bears fruit, e.g. Adoption in Rome was included as the same nom as Marcus Antonius, in Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Featured_log/November_2003. --Dr pda 20:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
ah, that I can do. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Add RBPs

Done List of new RBPs to be added to WP:FFA

(Marskell - can you add those above - former FFAs - to the correct cats on the list, or should I?) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Marskell, maybe we should hold off on adding these until we understand Placebo's list below - if all of those are former FFAs, wow ! For example, Baseball is a current FA <confused> SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Allright, now that I've located Wikipedia:Archive/Refreshing brilliant prose, it's much clearer - so we do have this many FFAs, and Baseball should currently be listed in former repromoted about to be demoted for the second time. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I added the list above. Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:29, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Sort out

Done Otherwise needs to be sorted out

  • There's something weird at Talk:Beer and Talk:Beer/Tags - may need manual attention?
    • The tags are on a sub page because there are so many, which breaks most of them - could be sorted out by the new template. Yomanganitalk 23:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
      • I left a note for Gimmetrow, reminding him the bot might need manual intervention there. Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Steer wrestling, which used to be Bulldogging. Talk:Bulldogging was not redirected, so it's counted twice. (I deleted it from Talk:Bulldogging - which should be deleted or something by an admin, haven't found FAC)
    • I deleted Talk:Bulldogging as it was empty. Bulldogging was in the first recorded brilliant prose page: [[1]], so it won't have a FAC. Yomanganitalk 23:01, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Talk:Enclave and Talk:Enclave and exclave - appear to be the same? This looks like another one where the old talk page wasn't moved when the article was moved - ugh - how to fix? (I deleted the duplicate FAR and FAC templates from the old talkpage, but it still needs to be moved or whatever.)
  • Dreyfus Affair - weird thing on talk page, template not used - I don't know how to fix this, or which template to put there - Yomangani or Marskell ??
    • It appears someone manually added the content of the template but not the template itself... I think this fixed. Marskell 21:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Something is still goofed up there - links are red and Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidate/Dreyfus Affair doesn't show - it's Greek to me. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
        • Found the mistake - it's candidates (plural) - sheesh, now I have to figure out where that came from, and if there are others. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
          • ah, heck, I need help here - now they're redirecting in circles to each other, with double redirects. Don't know how to fix. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
            • Is this fixed or am I missing something? Yomanganitalk 23:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
              • I looked again, and it seems fixed. Maybe I was getting old cached versions before? Thanks. Left you a talk page question on Business Strategy. Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA/FFA?

Now listed at GA - removed from FFA cat - not good:

Fixed in {{ArticleHistory}} by using currentstatus=FFA/GA Gimmetrow 18:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Gimmetrow, I noticed that the incorrect current status tag on Super Mario was added manually by RyanGerbil10 and Euro was added by Placebo, probably before you came up with the combo, FFA/GA. If editors add incorrect tags manually before the bot does all the work, will the bot eventually correct them, or should I continue to check the count for mistakes? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, no, the bot isn't going to be scanning pages again unless they are re-submitted for FAC. Perhaps by then the bot will have code to fix human error. Gimmetrow 21:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
OK - then maybe we should put an instruction line on the actual template, asking people not to manually insert it until the bot work is done, or something to that effect, and also explaining right on the template that the bot does all of the work of adding closed FAR/FAC etc. info? Otherwise, individual editors might start tweaking and messing things up and adding the template themselves, before you're done? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category and list in sync - done

With these corrections, the counts at WP:FFA and Category:Wikipedia former featured articles agree.

There are 330 articles in the category, which includes Wikipedia:Templates used for featured content, so 329 articles.

There are 343 articles in WP:FFA minus 12 repromoted minus two Project pages = 329.

Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New RBPs to be added

Strike means template added - from Wikipedia:Archive/Refreshing brilliant prose

I might have missed some that are currently featured articles. Also, I didn't add templates to these yet. The Placebo Effect 20:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Confused - some of the list above are current featured articles - are any of them former featured articles, or should I check each one? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Now I understand - we do have to eventually add all these RBPs, but will wait for ArticleHistory to be added. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Funny thing, the two category topics that aren't articles were already included in the FA count. The Placebo Effect 04:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Do you mean the Project pages? Someone told me once that they used to be included in FAs, were FARC's, and Project pages are no longer included in FAs. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
What do i do for the template if the article was moved, just attach it anyway? The Placebo Effect 20:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd say to attach it anyway, and trust me to track them down? I wanted to make sure the list was in sync at some point, but from here on in, I won't worry as much. Also, I can move the FAR/FAC if it gets too confusing, and I think I understand the template enough now to adjust them if I need to move them - I would only do that in cases where the name is so dramatically different that I can't do a crosscheck when we're done of the list and the category. Let me know when you're done, so I can add them to WP:FFA and crosscheck. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
For example, The Today programme vs. Today programme isn't going to mess me up alphabetically on crosschecking; Business strategy to Strategic management or Bulldogging to Steer wrestling is another story, and those were adding up on me. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Placebo, if it's extra work for you, you don't have to strike them for me - I have to click on each one when you're done anyway, because to add them to the list, I have to know 1) what the article is about for correct category, 2) see if it's been on mainpage for bolding or not, and 3) see if it's been repromoted. If you're striking only for my benefit, you don't have to do the extra work. If you're striking for your own checklist - no problem for me either - I still don't want to add until you're all done. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I had posted above two new articles in the category. Do you want to wait on these? It's easy enough to generate a new category vs. links difference as above. Gimmetrow 21:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking of waiting til they were all done, and doing a new sync. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Added 5 to FFA (Alchemy, Baseball, Paramount Pictures, Today programme, Three Colors: Blue); numbers in sync. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed RBPs and FFAs

Um, I have been away, so let me know if I have gone off on the wrong track, but are we adding all former "Brilliant Prose" articles which are not now "Featured Articles" to FFA? Quite a few did not make the cut in (IIRC) March 2004. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we're adding the ArticleHistory template to those pages per the list of RBPs above. I'm crossing them off as I do them, and making sure that WP:FFA syncs with the FFA category - at this point, it's probably best that only a few of us continue, so we don't get crossed up, and because only Marksell, Joel, and I are on the FFA bot counter whitelist. There are several (already) I don't know how to do - see notes above. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify, it's only the Brilliant Prose articles which didn't make the cut (it was in Jan 2004 actually) which are now being tagged as Former FA. (The ones which were removed from Brilliant Prose before then don't count.) I think the list above is the complete one. Dr pda 20:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
OK - thanks. Is there any relevant discussion that I ought to read? It seems a bit misleading: they were never featured articles! -- ALoan (Talk) 20:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Fine time to say so :-)) OK ... since I'm busting my buns, I'll stop on these for now. The discussion is in at least 3 different places, so we'd better start it over here. I'll try to recap - hope I get this right. As people began adding the ArticleHistory template, I noticed that the category of FFAs was out of sync with the list at WP:FFA. That was because old RBPs were being added via the category on the template. We discussed in several places, and decided to add them to FFA. It makes sense to me for the following reason - there are currently a large number of FAs that are "brilliant prose" - if we have FAs that survived RBP (currently going through FAR - with a large number remaining), why would these be any different? Seems the same to me - they were brilliant prose promotions that were subsequently demoted, so it seemed consistent. If you disagree, we have a lot of work to undo :-) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, obviously I did not see the previous discussion, nor do I want to put you to lots of work. To avoid going over old ground, where should I look for the debates to date?
I thought the whole point of the discussion in January 2004 (only slightly before my time :) was that these old Brilliant Prose articles did not become Featured Articles. Would it make sense, for example, to add them to the list of FFAs in a separate section? -- ALoan (Talk) 20:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm up to my eyeballs in templates and forget which page we're on :-) ArticleHistory discussions have occurred at the talk page of the template, and at Dr pda's page. But, I come back to the consistency issue - we do currently have a number of brilliant prose FAs which survived the RBP cut, so in order to be consistent, those that didn't make the cut, would be FFAs, no? When we FARC a brilliant prose promotion today, it gets added to the FFA list, so your proposal (for a separate list) would mean I'd have to go back through every FARC and see which were brilliant prose promotions. I think. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, was inspired to deal with refs on AEJ Collins. Anyway...

I'm not sure I follow. There were Brilliant Prose articles. When we moved to Featured Articles, some of the BP articles became FAs and some did not. It seems a bit odd to retrospectively decide that the ones that did not become FAs are Former FAs. BP and FA are not the same thing, really. I guess I am saying that the ones that did not make the cut are never-FAs. The ones that were BP articles and became FAs *are* FAs, so can legitimately be called FFAs if they are FARC'd.

When we FARC a FA that was a BP article, we add it to FFA, because it *was* a FA. No?

My head is now starting to hurt too... -- ALoan (Talk) 21:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, so I don't know what to do now. Regrouping, I think the entire list of RBPs is given above, so we know how to un-do the work if needed. (But I'm not sure that's correct.) Where should we take this discussion for consensus - here? We're going to look awfully silly when we go back and remove all those templates :-) Best to stop working, and sit on this for a few days. On the other hand, if the list above is all of the RBPs, yes, I could probably move them to a separate section without much fuss - might be the best solution? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
By the way, to make your head hurt less (or more) ALoan, I didn't realize that RBPs had never been considered FAs - I thought "refreshing" meant they had been considered FAs, and were now being reconsidered. I've never understood brilliant prose promotions - are you saying all of those promoted came from this RBP list? I thought they had been previously promoted, and RBP was a re-evaluation, so when others began to add them, I thought it made complete sense. Clueless newbie - still not sure if I understand the historic process. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
BP functioned more or less like GA does now - essentially anyone could approve a page and it was considered BP. RBP occurred a few months after a formal nomination process was initiated. As I recall, the nomination process was initially still called BP, but I don't recall for sure if the "old" BP articles were considered "different" before the RBP. The theory here is that BP was the FA of the time, so those delisted from BP are equivalent to former FAs. (WP:FFA still lists two project pages that were considered BP at the time.) If the consensus goes another way, all that will be needed is to change the currentstatus to something other than FFA, say "reviewed". It would be easy to generate a category listing all pages with an RBP action. Gimmetrow 22:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Whew, Excedrin moment passed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, I am feeling a bit like a goldfish right now; but then I was not around in January 2004 (the name "featured" seems to appear here on 21 January 2004 but I think there was some discussion at around the same time). However as far as I am aware, BP articles were never considered "featured" and it would be misleading to describe them as such. There is a pretty clear divide between BP (pre-FA) and FA, and it is usually quite obvious which kind an article is. WP:WIAFA came pretty soon, in April 2004, having evolved from this, first added on 12 March 2004 by Jengod. (What it is that they say about people who forget their own history?) -- ALoan (Talk) 22:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Historical question - did we "feature" them on the main page pre-Jan 2004? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I had the idea to put featured articles on the main page in the first week of January, 2004. It got quite good reviews, so I implemented it about a week later. About 3 weeks after that, we switched the main page to the 4 pane look we have now. Raul654 20:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Note - here is the diff that started it all. Raul654 21:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Um, scrolling back the Main Page about 1,200 revisions gets to this on 1 January 2004. Aah, rather sweet, really. Anyway, a line for "featured articles" was added by Filiocht on 13 January, here, which was cycled manually, mostly by Raul654. Before then, there was nowhere for "featured articles" to be featured. By 23 February, it was looking something like the present Main Page - see. A pleasant walk down memory lane. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, this looks pretty definite - [3] - these are some of the very articles I just added as FFAs. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

It does appear from this that most of the articles listed above were considered FAs before RBP happened. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:53, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Remember that pages may have been renamed, so just because it is part of the history of Featured Articles now, doesn't mean it was necessarily called Featured Articles then. However, for the record, Brilliant Prose Candidates was renamed 21 January 2004 to Featured Article Candidates, but there is history in Featured Article candidates going back to June 2003. As far as I recall, RBP was a refreshing of BP articles that had not been through the nomination process. (I was not involved with BP/FA back then.) As for featuring on the main page, the system as it is now began in late January 2004. Gimmetrow 23:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the page name is confusing you: the page was moved from Wikipedia:Brilliant prose to Wikipedia:Featured articles on 21 January 2004. The give-away is the text which says "we couldn't possibly keep track of all of the brilliant prose. ... There is also a list of Brilliant pictures... If you wish to add a new page to this list, please nominate it first on Wikipedia:Brilliant prose candidates (see that page for further instructions)." and the edit history, which has this and then another couple of changes. Archaeology of Wikipedia, eh? -- ALoan (Talk) 23:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Back to the Excedrin then ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
It's not a big deal. It only involves those articles that were part of BP prior to June 2003 and were not kept as FA when the transition was made in January 2004. Articles that were nominated under the BP process after June 2003 were FA (as far as I recall), and those kept in RBP became FA too. Excluding those that became FA again after 2004, it involves perhaps 100 articles. The question is, what to do with them? I don't want to create a formerBP status just for these articles, so we either treat them as formerFA, former FAC, or nothing. Gimmetrow 23:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, my preferred answer would be the one that you have excluded (i.e. "former BP") but given that the old process for selecting BP articles was essentially that any person who felt like it just added them to the list, I would go for "nothing". I wonder whether it would be worth adding a "former BP" switch for the BP articles that became FAs... probably not worth the effort. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm just going to wait 'til you folks who've been around the block longer than I have decide, and I'll do whatever you tell me to do :-) Reversing the article additions from WP:FFA will be easy, as I took great care with my edit summaries; adjusting each talk page will be more time consuming, unless a new category is added, but at least I know exactly which articles to work on, per list above. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:04, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
My issue with a formerBP status is that it's obsolete. No new articles will get it. It would be equivalent to a failed FAC, and so eventually all formerBP would either become GA or FA, and the formerBP status would be gone entirely. (One might even argue that it is a lower status than a later failed FAC...) Personally I think of BP as the old FA, even though there was no way to really "feature" them. But an argument could be made that BP was not FA, and RBP was basically a mass FAC, so RBP failures are essentially failed FACs. So FFA or FFAC is fine with me. I'm mainly objecting to a new status (the line at the end of the table) because it would add yet more cases for the bot to handle. We could easily create a category for any article that has a BP or RBP action in the table, and keep those separate that way. Gimmetrow 05:04, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
So, can we agree to solve this entire problem by calling them FFAC (failed featured article candidates) - which would mean only one changed entry on the talk pages - and I remove them from WP:FFA? Would that satisfy everyone? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

There are too many questions being asked at cross-purposes, so I'll try to sort them out. The Brilliant Prose articles were indeed quite similiar to the way GA is done now -- anybody could promote any articles he felt was OK. At some point in mid-2003, an optional review process (Brilliant Prose candidates) was created (I can't say exactly when with specificity because this was right about the time I started editing Wikipedia). The Brilliant Prose candidates page was eventually renamed to the FAC page, and the main Brilliant Prose page was renamed to the current featured articles (WP:FA) page. Given that there is a non-trivial distinction between how Brilliant Prose and Featured articles works, I think it makes sense to categorize them into two different categories, but I don't think it's a huge issue (mostly because I think the whole category system is evil, but that's a story for another day). If there are any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Raul654 21:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Fine. I've created Category:Wikipedia_former_brilliant_prose which includes any article with an AH template containing a RBP fail. Not sure how to force a category refresh in the WP database, but Sandy can use this for tracking. Otherwise, I guess we treat RBP fails as a former FAC. Gimmetrow 21:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm still confused - former FA or failed FAC? Is the conclusion that I change each ArticleHistory template on the failed RBPs to FFAC (failed FAC), and delete the articles from WP:FFA? We don't want them on the former featured article list? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
In the actions, they still have RBP. However, for currentstatus, I guess we're not going to treat them as formerFAs, but as former FACs, and so not list in WP:FFA unless you want to have a separate heading. See Talk:Paramount_Pictures. Gimmetrow 22:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, so I change the list above to FFAC, and they are now categorized in former brilliant prose. I'd rather not have to track them on this list, unless anyone wants me to. It makes our numbers look really high, like we're defeaturing more articles than we are. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Sure, just look out for ones like Talk:Prostitution with later history. Someone should tell Placebo. Gimmetrow 22:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I told Placebo and Dr pda - reverted the additions, will change list above, and make sure list re-syncs. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two problems

Two out of sync, to track down:

These two were on the list before we started adding RBPs - need to find out if they had later FARCs, or if they should be deleted from WP:FFA. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC) I don't know what I'm supposed to do with these - there is conflicting evidence as to whether they survived RBP or not. Easiest thing would be for me to delete them from the list. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

It's difficult to tell from the RBP page what exactly happened with each vote, since no result is given. Perhaps OMG was supposed to be removed, but got overlooked? In any event, it was listed on FA and only removed months later through FAR. Seems like a FFA. As for HotUS, the FA-review page simply notes that it was removed by DanKeshet, the same editor who had removed it back in 2003 in the link above. The FA review page was created in 2005 probably to help people track things. Unless this can be found listed on an FA page in 2004 or later, I think this is a delisted BP, not a formerFA. Gimmetrow 00:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
That's what I was thinking. So, I'll remove History of the United States from the FFA list, as it was a RBP, and I'll update the template at OMG to reflect the later FARC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Gosh, you're fast, Gimmetrow ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

In sync. Next time the counter bot runs, WP:FFA should have 336 articles minus 12 repromoted minus 2 projects = 322. Category:Wikipedia former featured articles has 324 entries minus Wiki templates minus Elonka/work (left note) = 322. Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) While I was hunting things down you seem to have solved the problem. I think I've managed to untangle what happened to History of the US. It was removed from Brilliant Prose on 28 Aug 2003 [8], and added to the 'Recently removed' section on WP:FAC. However this removal comment didn't have a timestamp, so lingered on until March 2004, when the 'Removals' part of WP:FAC was moved to FARC [9]. From there it found its way into the archives, and then in June 2005 the article was tagged with {{formerFA}}, and the FARC subpage created with the original (Aug 2003) removal rationale so that there wouldn't be a redlink in the template. For some reason it was voted on in Refreshing Brilliant Prose, despite not having been listed on BP for a few months prior to the vote (perhaps because it was in the Recent Removals section). It was only ever a BP, so shouldn't be on the list here, and arguably doesn't need the ArticleHistory template. --Dr pda 01:25, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Dr pda - but, uh, oh - I continued adding articlehistory templates on the rest of the RBP list above, listing them as FFACs - sounds like we need not continue doing that? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Repromotions

Is there a wikiproject or any sort of orginized effort around getting any of these re-promoted? Dalf | Talk 23:10, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

You might look at Marksell's WP:1FAPQ. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
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