Talk:Ford Crown Victoria

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Cars Portal This article is supported by Wikipedia Project Automobiles, a collective approach to creating a comprehensive guide to the world of Automobiles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you are encouraged to visit the project page, where you can contribute to the discussion.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

Contents 1 Citation needed...? 2 Fuel Tank 3 Fuel Tank Fires 4 Ford Mustang Sedan

[edit] Citation needed...?

Under the section Change of Canadian availability, there is a citation needed tag beside the sentence "The civilian Crown Victoria is only available when ordered as a fleet directly from Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited and is not available through Ford dealerships." — I originally wrote that paragraph. The information is supported by two facts: 1- The Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited website does not have the Ford Crown Victoria in its lineup of vehicles. Only the Ford Fleet of Canada website does. 2- I go to a local Ford dealership in my area (I live in Canada) regularly and update myself on information regarding their vehicles. The dealership I go to has verified that they do not sell new civilian Crown Victorias, nor does any other Ford dealership in Canada. Can this citation needed tag be removed or is this not enough confirmation? —S3BST3R 07:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It's been almost a month. Is an Administrator or anyone else going to respond to this issue or what...? —S3BST3R 02:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

---

I noticed Ford no longer sells the Crown Vic' to retail customers in Canada, but I can't find out when this happened (I'm guessing 2003). It's still available to fleets however. I read also that Ford is expected to make the same move soon in the US with the introduction of the Five Hundred. -- stewacide

Ford, I believe, sells the Mercury Grand Marquis as a Ford in Canada instead. I wouldn't be surprised; the Grand Marquis is really the retail customer version of this car anyway, hardly any private individuals buy a Crown Vic new. —Morven 18:53, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

They do, which is doubley strange since they phaysed out the Mercury brand and dealership network otherwise (other than the Grand Marquis/Marauder no other Mercury's are availabe in Canada).

Anyways what I was wondering is if anyone knows when the Crown Vic' stopped retail sales in Canada so I could add it to the article. I tried searching goodle but didn't come up with a date... -- stewacide

As I added to the article, the last year for the Crown Victoria to be available at dealerships for the general public in Canada was 1999. Although the Lincoln Town Car and Mercury Grand Marquis remain available at dealerships, the Grand Marquis is officialy a "Ford" vehicle in Canada in all litterature and resources, despite it's still badged as a Mercury. Since the Marauder's demise in 2004, the Grand Marquis is the only remaining Mercury vehicle sold in Canada. -- S3BST3R

---

I think you're right to question this about the CV no longer being sold as police cars, Morven. If that happened, there'd hardly be any market for them, I think. I also wonder about the part of the article that says a gas tank upgrade is being offered to all owners. I understood that this was only being offered to police forces. RivGuySC 01:38, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I could find no references to such. It's notable that Ford just won a lawsuit about this topic, too; given juries' common prejudice against deep-pocketed defendents, and sympathy for dead police officers' families, the case against Ford must have been a long way from compelling.

Most of the incidents in question involve collisions between a high-speed vehicle and a stopped police cruiser; this is not what would in general be considered a survivable accident. The Crown Vic's gas tank is definitely by far in compliance with the federal 30 mph collision integrity requirement.

Ford's recent moves to offer an automatic fire-suppression system on their police vehicles is, IMO, not the admission of guilt some take it as; merely a realisation that police vehicles are much more likely to be involved in high-speed collisions in which gas tank integrity cannot be assured no matter what its placement. —Morven 21:43, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

Is there not a stretched wheelbase Crown Vic' sold for taxi use? I've heard about this somewhere but I wouldn't know... -- stewacide 20:41, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, there is. It's code P70. P71 is the Police Interceptor, P70 is the Long Wheel Base, P73 is the base Crown Victoria, and P74 is the Crown Vic LX. I'm not sure of the correct term for the P-codes, but they're encoded in the VIN. An example VIN for a Police Interceptor made after 1992 would be 2FALP71W0TX000000. A civilian base Crown Vic of the same year would then be 2FALP73W0TX000000, and a Crown Vic LX would be 2FALP74W0TX000000. (Yeah, I know I need to get a Wikipedia account. If you have any more questions, email me. abuse-at-divefox.net.)

Does anyone know what kind of miles per gallon a 92 might get? 64.246.148.135 21:43, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

The 92 Crown Vic was EPA rated at 18mpg city/25mpg highway. Those ratings depended on driving style, vehicle condition, traffic patterns, altitude, fuel quality, time of the year, etc. For a 1992 in good condition, properly tuned up and driven with a light foot, 15mpg city is a safe bet. If you keep your speed down on the highways, accelerate slowly and don't pass people, you could probably do better than 25mpg on the highway.

[edit] Fuel Tank

WTH is this?

Earlier paragraph indicates that the fire caused by rear end crash seems to be a typical high speed crash. There is an article point out defending the Crown Victoria... THEN on the last paragraph whoever wrote it it portrays Ford like being O.J. Simpson who got away from murder. Re-wording some of these nformation may be needed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.83.153.249 (talk • contribs) .

It needs to be rewritten. Clearly someone has come along and re-added a lot of the material that was previously removed / NPOVed. I've researched this issue a little and what appears to be the case is that the Crown Victoria is about as safe as other cars in its market segment - and it clearly passes DOT regulations with regards to gas tank impact resistance. However, production consumer vehicles are not designed to survive being hit from behind with an 80+ mph speed differential, and neither is the Crown Victoria.

Whether they should be is another matter, of course, but I have not heard any major cry for consumer vehicles to survive such a crash - partly because they are comparitively rare. (This is why it is suggested to get out of a broken-down vehicle on the side of the freeway, rather than stay in the vehicle, by the way). Police cruisers are much more likely to get hit in this fashion, however, because they are frequently stopped at the side of the road on freeways and the like.

If such survivability was a requirement for a police vehicle, then police departments are if anything more at fault than Ford, since they have never specified such a requirement from their supplier. Going after Ford in this instance has more to do with the way the US legal system works than any real-world culpability, IMO. It's easier to go after the deep-pockets, unsympathetic defendent than the police department itself. It's also commonplace these days in the US (and it has been ever since the Pinto lawsuit) to argue that if ANYTHING could have been done to prevent a tragedy, it should have been - even though vehicle designers in the real world cannot do that. There's never one way to improve safety - there are thousands and thousands. Implementing them all at a price point that purchasers will accept, meeting government standards (e.g. CAFE fuel consumption requirements) would be impossible, let alone dealing with the fact that a design that improves safety in one way may decrease it in another. All things that plaintiff's attorneys don't have to address, it seems. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The whole section should be deleted from this article, as there is a separate page for the Interceptor that mentions the issue, and tells it from a neutral standpoint. Sable232 22:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

As it stands today it is both OR and violates NPOV. It needs to be re-written. It reads like a Ford press release.--Cerejota 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see how it violates NPOV. Explain? --Sable232 23:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I just added a link to a page with a lot of criticism against the Crown Vic fuel tank. Please note that nowadays the accepted position for the fuel tank is forward or over the rear axle, outside the rear crumple zone and inside the survival cell. Advanced cars from the 1970´s like the Volvo 200 or the Mercedes-Benz 450 used this safer location four decades ago.

But, alas, the Crown Vic "Family" (Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, all with the same faulty fuel system: This is NOT a "Police Crown Vics" only problem)) is based on the aging 1979 Ford Panther platform: In these cars the gas tank is aft the rear axle, just as in the Ford Pinto or the Ford Mustang. A bad, bad location for the gas tank in case of rear end crash.

And no...

• ...the issue is NOT if the Crown Vic Family performs well in the crash-tests (she does, at least in the less demanding US tests).
• The issue is if the gas tank is located in a bad place (it is).

This is the crux of the issue:

Ford's own statistics presented to Arizona in 2001 show the 1992-97 Crown Victoria has a fatal rear crash fire rate 3.6 to 4.8 times higher than the comparable 1985-96 Chevrolet Impala/Caprice.2 People survive crashes in Caprices when they burn to death in Crown Victorias.[1].

Why americans still manufacture and buy ,in the year of the lord of 2006 ,a car based in a dangerous 1979 design is far beyond my understanding. The existence of luxury Mercury and Lincoln versions using that same platform only makes the enigma only more impenetrable.

Matthew Brown wrote: It's also commonplace these days in the US (and it has been ever since the Pinto lawsuit) to argue that if ANYTHING could have been done to prevent a tragedy, it should have been - even though vehicle designers in the real world cannot do that. There's never one way to improve safety - there are thousands and thousands. Implementing them all at a price point that purchasers will accept, meeting government standards (e.g. CAFE fuel consumption requirements) would be impossible

With all due respect, you are wrong, Matthew. The design is bad. Period. It was bad in 1979 (Volvo and Mercedes Benz used back then the correct design), but is totally unaccepptable in 2006. My daily driver is 14yo euro clunker (Renault Safrane), but the gas tank is safely located below the rear passengers butt. There´s a healthy distance (more than 50 inches) of steel from the rear bumper to the gas tank. The death by charring so common to rear ended Crown Vic passengers is unthinkable in my car. A worst case rear end crash should be required to puncture the gas tank.

And yes: The four pot Safrane sips fuel to american standards, albeit it´s a bit thirsty to european standards. To blame the CAFE for the bad design of the Crown Vic gas tank is to evade reality.

I suggest you to visit a junkyard with a flashligt and have fun seeing where is located the gas tank in diferent cars. You will have a surprise seeing how much moderately priced cars from the 1980´s (specially from Europe and Japan) used back then the correct design placing tha gas tank: Forward or over the rear axle. If you find a Pinto or a 1960´s Mustang in the junkyard, a picture of the gas tank would be an excellent WikiCommons contribution.

But I agree with you that charred Crown Vic users should not be able to sue Ford: They should know what kind of outdated crap design they are buying with their money. Randroide 19:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fuel Tank Fires

I went to a Ford dealership maybe a year after Good Morning America covered a story about Crown Victoria fires. While I was there, I found what looked like a salesmens guide to all the models Ford makes, and included in the Crown Vic's section was a couple of pages about the Interceptor Package. If I remember correctly, the guide made some mention of the fuel tank 'problems' and it showed a diagram of the new fuel tank layout, which I guess is suppossed to fix the problem. It showed that instead of having one main tank, the fuel load was split into three or four smaller cylinderical tanks that were moved deeper into the body of the vehicle. I definently remember the diagram, and I seem to remember some mention that they were of a flexible rubber and not a rigid plastic. It was a good while ago and I wanted to take the binder but my conscence prevailed. Does anyone else knew anything about this, perhaps somebody who works or worked at a Ford plant or dealership?

[edit] Ford Mustang Sedan

According to AutoWeek [2], a Mustang sedan and station wagon are reportedly in development for the 2011 model year. It will replace the aging Crown Victoria sedan as Ford's rear wheel drive full-size car. It will also underpin the next Mercury Marquis and Lincoln Town Car. So the D2C platform will replace the Panther body. -- Bull-Doser 15:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It is fairly certain that an enlarged version of the D2C will replace the Panther. However, the Mustang idea is unlikely. The Ford fullsize could be called Galaxie (or maybe Falcon) and Mercury indicated earlier that Marquis would continue on a new platform. I still hold out hope for a Continental built off this chassis. --Sable232 16:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)