Talk:Footbag

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[edit] Circle Kick justification

Circle Kick needs justification. More than just kicking happens and it can be played without kicking. -Cews 17:39, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

It certainly involves more than kicking, but whatever about the accuracy of the term, the term suitable for Wikipedia is the one with consensus behind it. Certainly, Wikipedia is not the place for the introduction of a new term. One justification for "circle kick" is that it has some currency at the footbag.org site, at least in forums (search for "circle kick" at footbag.org). Unforunately, the IFPA, who are officially responble for the various official footbag sports, don't seem to concern themselves with this informal game. If you can find some solid off-Wikipedia references to another name, then it should certainly be considered. --Malcohol 14:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poorly phrased insert

This passage may very well be correct, but its phrasing and the fact that the author references him/herself just irk me. I don't know if this violates Wikipedia policy, but I think we can agree that it needs to be edited.

-Note: Actually the above paragraph is in error. Marshall may have introduced -Stalberger to the concept earlier but Johnny's first partner was Clarke Schneider, a -friend in Houston where Johnny was living in 1972. They experimented with various -materials and stitchings over a period of a year or so. Johnny decided to relocate -to Oregon to concentrate on introducing the footbag to sports teams on the west -coast. Clarke was not interested in relocating and sold his interest in Hacky Sack -(the name from the outset)and Johnny went to Oregon and the rest is history. I own -both a prototype hand sewn Hacky Sack (made by Clarke's wife)and a promotional T -shirt made in 1973. end of note.

~Kazu 22:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Separate pages for footbag sports

Eventually, I think it would be a good idea to split off the footbag sports into seperate pages, i.e. Footbag freestyle, Footbag net, Circle kick. This page would remain as a central page but could also go into more detail about the physical footbag itself. Malcohol 16:35, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I agree -- especially if someone (probably me :-)) puts in more information about the rules of different variants, like n-hit Kill. There's also some information in the linked Everything2 nodes that looks good -- I'll have to check on copyrights again to make sure we can use that, though. --bdesham 19:21, Aug 22, 2003 (UTC)

I agree, although I think the freestyle page should be phrased Freestyle Footbag, because that's what the people who play the game call it. I'm one of them. --Footfun 18:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Variations and original research

I'm concerned that this article is being used to store the rules of 'new' varients of footbag. If so, then it might contradict the wiki's no original research policy. If the rules of these varients are well established, then can someone add links to some other website/resource where they are described? If not, then wikipedia isn't the place. --Malcohol 16:08, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Footbag is a UK term

Well it also may be Austrailian as well but in America practicly know one refers to it as a Footbag. or the game as "Hacking the Sack" instead the terms used for both is generally Hacky Sack I understand that this is probobly a generalized trademark but the majority of Americans won't know what a "footbag" or a "Circle Kick" is. -Deathawk 17:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the term "footbag" was coined by the creators of the sport (both American's, I think) and is its official name. Since it is the role of an encyclopedia to be authorative, Footbag would therefore be the correct term. You're right though: most people do use "Hacky-sack" and "Hacky sack". Fortunately, both terms redirect to this page, so they shouldn't have too much trouble finding the article.--Malcohol 10:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
You may be right that the term "footbag" was coined by the game's creators, but the name that they trademarked was "Hacky Sack," thus making that the "official" name of the sport, or at least of the bag itself. 128.175.10.246 13:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
As I understand it, they trademarked "Hacky Sack" as the name for their brand of footbag.--Malcohol 12:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree, Hacky Sack is no more the official name than Frisbee is for Flying Disc.

Ok I'm cool with that but I have never heard anyone refer to Circle Kick as "Hacking the Sack" Deathawk 03:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

if we redirect well, there should be no problems, although Hacky Sack doesn't redirect to footbag (which is a good thing). Also the two pages Hacky Sack and Footbag have many links to each other and describe different parts of the same idea (maybe they should be combined?)--Superman 20:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hippy connection

Hippies are commonly the image that they smoke pot and play hacky sack. There's no info on this culture in the article. DyslexicEditor 16:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hippies rule. I think the reason that there's no info on this is that no one knows enough about hippies, (except the hippies themselves) to write about their culture. -Unknown
Probably because it's not a significant aspect of the culture. It's recreation, and yes, potsmokers and hippies (they are exclusive terms) do engage in recreation too. They actually play it a lot on TV studios, I should know. Tyciol 13:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hackysack culture

I don't know what the hackysack culture is in other areas but I know in British Columbia, Canada the punk and stoner scenes have really adopted it into there life style. I think there should be some references about the culture on the page.

[edit] Kill

I've just deleted this section from the main article, as there is a section on Kill in List of circle kick variants. The section I deleted is below --Malcohol 12:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Kill is a different type of game played with hackysack. Generally, (like cicle kick or freestyle), players will stand in a circle and attempt to achieve a certain number of touches (e.g. 4 hit kill, where the player must hit the hack 4 times). After this is achieved a player may attempt to get another person or player out. However most of the time (if people play with neighbors) you cannot get the person next to you out until their are 4 persons left. At this point players will fairly distribute the hack so every person has equal chance to hack the sack. This continues on until each person is eliminated. (elimination occurs when a person does not keep the hacky sack in play, or is just hit anywhere aboove the knees. You continue playing until their is only one person left. At this point, the person becomes known as the Hack king - for at least this one game, and a new game is started.

[edit] General Rules

  1. Once a person is eliminated new people are not allowed to join.
  2. Must hit the hack the predetermined amount of times before getting someone out
  3. Self serve - your out
  4. Below the knee - your out
  5. Neighbors - cant get the person next to you out until 4 people are left
I fixed this up but have no idea who created it. Tyciol 13:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footbag and Football?

I've seen a lot of tricks just like hacky sack performed by football (soccer) players. Don't you guys think there should be an article on this too? I posted a request for this on the soccer page as well. I guess among enthusiasts it will become controversial to discuss which is more difficult. Personally, while I look footbag more, the same trick done with a soccer ball impresses me more do the the size, and since the ball gives less (and in a spherical way) it's weirder to handle. Tyciol 13:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Hacky Sack

Maybe the article "Hacky Sack" should be merged into here. 24.76.92.224 20:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.--Malcohol 09:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

There should be some clear separation between the casual activity of kicking a bag around and the sport of footbag, each deserving separate pages.

Hacky Sack is a brand name for the first footbag, and also in North America is a term commonly associated with the activity of kicking a bag around casually in a circle. However, this is an inaccurate view of the sport and conveys a poor contemporary view of the sport. In terms of history and culture, Hacky Sack deserves a place on the footbag page, but more attention should be paid to the contemporary view of the sport held by the players and the actual footbag community.

http://modified.in/ is the main community forum for the sport of footbag. Other sites like http://flipsider.com/ have a wealth of information about the intricacies of freestyle footbag.

The european viewpoint of the sport is much clearer due to not needing to fight through the negative slacker views associated with the term hacky sack. It has always been known as footbag and practiced as a sport there.

Footbag is the name of the sport, therefore this page should maintain a focus in that regard, with links to other pages concerning the more relaxed versions of circle kicking and 'hacky sack'. Focus should remain on the variations of competitive play, mainly footbag freestyle and footbag net.

The picture of a footbag should be changed to a contemporary, professionally made 32 panel footbag, and the crocheted version reserved for the Hacky Sack page. No footbag player would seriously consider playing with a crocheted bag, and would not be recommended for someone wishing to learn how to play.

Also there is now an official footbag shoe, released as of Footbag World Championships 2006 in Germany. The shoe is called "Quantum". More information is available at flipsider.com.

I don't think I'm the best person to make all the updates needed, but there is a ways to go before this page reflects the sport in the proper light.Gjr 17:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serving in Circle Kick

Someone just added the phrase "It is also considered good posture to serve with feet, not hands." to the circle kick section. Aside from the fact that the word "posture" is inappropriate, this claim surprises me. I know that there is no fixed set of rules for circle kick, but in any circle kick I've been a part of, serving with the hands has always been the norm. This is especially important for beginners, since it usually means that the first pass at least is accurate.--Malcohol 08:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] list of moves

I have started a list of moves that I have found on Wikipedia and the web. I think that we can start a new article about the tricks and moves in footbag. This is what I have so far (obviously it needs work and deffinitions):

The List

  • Inside Kick
  • Outside Kick
  • Knee
  • Toe Kick
  • Spin
  • The Elvis
  • The Thrust
  • The Pavarotti
  • The Reverse matrix
  • The Hummingbird
  • The Riverdance
  • Clipper Kick
  • Around The World Kick
  • Flying Inside
  • Flying Outside
  • Flying Clipper (Jester)
  • Back Stab
  • Pendulum
  • A Hewy
  • Stall
  • Toe Stall
  • Inside Stall
  • Outside Stall
  • Forehead Stall
  • Knee Stall
  • Toilet Stall
  • Hat Brim Stall
  • Chest Stall
  • Coight Stall

tell me what you think, also I have removed the list of moves at the top of this article, it adds little and this covers it.--Superman 20:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Most of these moves are not footbag moves (Pavarotti reverse Matrix etc.) You can find a relatively complete list of moves that have been hit and their descriptions here: http://www.modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=2871&start=0

The list is long there are several hundred entries there. I'm not sure of the usefulness of having such a list in this article firstly due to it's size, secondly due to the fact that the list increases monthly (on average). Max bxl 15:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] first real footbag shoe

planetfootbag has now released the first shoe designed especially and exclusively for footbag. would be good if some native english speaker could put that into the article. i don't speak english well enough...

I added a short line on the quantum shoe, and a direct to the planetfootbag website.

[edit] History

The history section was changed to this:

Footbag was invented in 1972 in Houston, Texas, when John Stalberger met Clarke Schneider . They worked together to fine-tune the footbag and market it to the public. John eventually decided to relocate to Oregon to market the footbag to sports teams on the west coast. There he met Mike Marshall and patented the footbag without including his origonal partner ( Schneider). It took off and Whammo bought it leaving John and Marshall in great financial shape and Schneider somewhat less so.

I've no idea whether this change is more or less accurate than what's in the article. However, I suggest that supporting references be provided before a change like this is adopted, or else that the history section should acknowledge that there is some disagreement over the history. I note that "Clarke Schneider" is mentioned on the footbag patent form.--Malcohol 10:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

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