Talk:FN FAL

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
This article is within the scope of the Firearms WikiProject, a project devoted to the improvement of firearms coverage on Wikipedia with an emphasis on civilian firearms.

If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

Why the comment on the Australians being told to keep magazines because of shortages of funding? It's very standard practice here in NZ to keep empty magazines for three reasons: 1) to allow you to bomb up the mags again as soon as practical. 2) to deny enemy 'sign'. 3) to deny the enemy equipment. We get our asses kicked if we leave our gear lying around a battlefield, is it not the same elsewhere? TinyPirate 01:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

We need a photo! David.Monniaux 11:17, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

How were Australian tactics in Vietnam dictated by this weapon? That's unclear and needs justification. Rst

I agree with the above sentiments. New Zealand and Australian tactics tended to be off the main tracks. Also the experience of the Malayan Emergency helped their tactics. I'm not sure the FN FAL affected them.

Also used by New Zealand. Did NZ buy them from Australia? Rst

No New Zealand obtained them commercially from Armscor in South Africa. Whirling

Hello Used the FN to train with when I was in Royal Canadian Army Cadets. It's 13:57 on Tue Jan 24, 2006. My site is at http://www.michaelmanalolazo.webitsmart.co.uk Just Surfing. Thanks.

Contents

[edit] not an assault rifle

changed "assault rifle" to "battle rifle" to correct error and clarify internal conflict

In that case, the infobox on the right needs to be changed, as it's listed as an assault rifle there, but it's described as a battle rifle in the main text. Geoff B 00:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The assault rifle page states that an assault rifle "is a type of automatic rifle generally defined as ... chambering intermediate-powered ammunition." This article clearly says that the FAL "utilize[s] a full-power rifle cartridge." An FAL is a battle rifle, not an assualt rifle.

You're correct, the FAL cannot be considered an assault rifle. I'll make it like the M14 article and put "Selective fire rifle" on the spec_type field. --Squalla 18:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] .280 British

I think the page needs discussion about Britains involvement with FN to create the FAL. It was originally meant to be a select fire rifle in a medium sized caliber much like the Stg. 44. The British aided FN in medium powered rifle cartridges and came up with .280 British but changed to 7.62x51 mm NATO (.308 Win.) with the standardization of NATO calibers and pressure from Americans. El Jorge 23:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian AR was a L1A2, not a L2A1

In Australian service the Automatic Rifle (AR) version of the SLR was known as the L1A2, not the L2A1. For a reference see http://www.raeme.net/toc.php?cat=armoury&item=2

That contradicts the information from every other source on the matter. Doesn't mean its wrong, but I've never heard of that. Also, since the weapons were obviously quite seperate, it would not make sense that the Automatic Rifle (with its full-auto, heavy barrel, lack of handguards, bipod, and different rear sights) would be a variant of the rifle. Any other information confirming this is welcome. -- Thatguy96 15:18 May 30 2006
I suspect that this fellows use of L1A2 is due to a slip of the fingers or faulty memory. Collector Grade Publications' authoritative UK and Commonwealth FALs clearly uses the designation L2A1, and even quotes from Aussie manuals and reports. One such manual is Technical Brochure, Rifle Equipments 7.62mm L1A1, L2A1, L1A1-F1 published by SAF Lithgow, the manufacturer of the rifles. --D.E. Watters 21:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Out of curiousity what was the L1A1-F1? -- Thatguy96 18:22 May 30 2006
It was a special model made up for Papua-New Guinea Forces. The buttstock and flashhider were both shortened. --D.E. Watters 15:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Fiction references

I have moved the list of references to films/tv/video games to a new pages and replaced the section with a link to it for the following reasons:

  • This is to keep it the article clean and uniform with other similar articles
  • Reduces overall length (already quite long) in keeping with size guidelines (see Wikipedia:Article size)
  • Help with inclusion into pages like List of firearms in video games and List of firearms in films

See Heckler & Koch MP5 / Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture or MAC-10 / MAC-10 in popular culture) for similar ...in popular culture pages) for similar efforts. Deon Steyn 12:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Queries & observations

'History' section
Para 2
"Unlike some other tactical rifles, reliable high-caps for the FN FAL are quite inexpensive".
What is a 'high-cap', reliable or not ?

There is no mention of the rifle's nickname "Right hand of the free world." Seems it should be in there somewhere, but I am not sure where.

'Israel' section
Para 1
a. "They (the FN FAL),were effective up to 730m".
Somebody has written on the edit page: "This sentence doesn't make much sense". I agree. Indeed, I would go as far as to say that 730m sounds: (a) too precise and (b) too ambitious.
If memory serves correctly, the British army taught the L1A1 SLR thus:
Maxium effective range, as an individual weapon - 300m; as one in a section (squad) - 600m.

b. "the Mauser K98 and the M1 carbine as sniper rifles". The M1 carbine as a sniper rifle, is this correct ?

'United States' section
Is the last paragraph in this section really necessary ? And who is Gary Jeter when he's at home?

RASAM 20:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

'Production and Use - Australia' Section 2.2

At least towards the end of its service life, the L1A1 was not fully automatic (comment saying "fully automatic use was discouraged"). Fire selector had a marking on the body of the rifle for fully automatic, however it could only be moved between "safe" and "single shot". The Kidd 03:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Answer to Question B

In regards to question B. Yes, the M1 Carbine family served a limited role as a designated marksman's weapon. Outfitted with the infrared M2 Sniperscope and flash hider, it was used in Korea and to some extent Vietnam. El Jorge 19:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


—The FN FAL was also used extensively by the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Terrorist War 1971 - 1980 and was shown to be far superior to the AK47 where aimed fire from ambush in savannah bush/veld conditions were required. Hitting power against hidden troops in concealed vegetation was excellent with the 7.62 ball ammo and the ability to operate under all weather conditions as well as above average accuracy made it a formidable weapon.Kills through 15 - 20 cm tree branches were often reported. The one disadvantage with the 20 round magazine was weight. Carrying an FN FAl with 100 rounds of ammo required far more effort than the equivalent for AK 47. The AK47 was better employed in a rapid fire situation, where blanket firepower rather than accuracy were required. Witness J. Mpofu Superintendent BSAP

[edit] New Zealand Army/Air Force

I've edited the section on the New Zealand army since it said that they used American M16s, which is not true, they use Aussie F88 Steyrs. The section seems to have been written by someone from the Royal New Zealand Air Force, who seems to have got the Steyr and M16 mixed up, or perhaps was recalling a period from when the M16 was in service.(before the Steyr replaced it)58.104.198.156 15:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wars

on the info box , it stated "cold war" only. the FAL has been used in MANY MANY wars , and even more if you consider conflicts. i can't think of many off the top of my head except for the Vietnam War (used by Australian & New Zealand army , SASR , NZSAS and the french foreign legion) . please help me out with this , i'm sorry but it's dammright disgusting that the M16 article gets more attention then this rifle that has had near more overall use around the world.

How about these:

Vietnam Rhodesia, Congo, well heck...about every war in Africa, Faulklands (Both sides used it!), Libya-Chad Isreali-Arab(6-days, Yom Kippur, Suez conflict), Kashmir, Sri-Lanka, Iran-Iraq, Desert Storm Rhodesian Bush War (Second Chimurenga)

G. Scott, 16 Oct 2006

[edit] Rhodesia?

I believe they were used by Rhodesia, including during the Rhodesian Bush War. Not having any more information than that, I haven't put that in the article. Does anyone have more info, or pictures to confirm this? rst 05:02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

--i can confirm that the british SASR used L1A1s in Rhodesia

[edit] Advertising

Think we can get rid of the advertising for DSArms? 24.28.19.63

We can, and did, apparently... However I don't know that this is the best move. Regardless of whether it may be considered "free advertising", DS Arms is in fact a current producer of the FN FAL rifle. Their product is claimed to be a completely new rifle, not a rebuild from de-militarized parts, and they have been doing it for many years now. Given this fact, they would indeed be one of only a few makers of the FAL still with rifles in production. Also of importance is the fact that DS Arms is one of only a few US makers that ever made the rifle. Based upon these facts, I would be in favor of including a statement in the USA FAL section which merely indicates that the FAL is still in production by DS Arms. FWIW, it turned me off too when I saw it in the article, but after thinking it over, I understand why it should be there.

Is there any evidence that indicates the DS Arms SA-58 FAL is not a completely new, US produced, production FN FAL rifle? and that they have been so for a decade or more? I also had a FAL made by Springfield Armory,for the life of me I can't remember the designation used by them,getting old,an excellent rifle with superb accuracy and function.Safn1949 02:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC) G. Scott 23 Oct 2006

IIRC Springfield Armory SAR-48s were not new production FALs, but built from surplus recievers (Greek and something else IIRC). -- Thatguy96 03:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What The?...

There have got to be at least 10 million FAL's made as the FAL is the most used western made rifle. More are in circulation than even the M16, which I think there are about 9 Million in circulation. The info box states that at least 1 million have been made, this seems a bit low for me

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../f/n/_/Talk%7EFN_FAL_e16f.html"