Talk:Florence
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An event mentioned in this article is a May 16 selected anniversary
Hi, Maveric149. I've removed the chronological sub-headings principally because I don't think they're helpful in an article of this length (though it may of course grow in future). On a more philosophical note, though, I think trying to divide up history according to such a strict chronological regime breaks up the flow of an article and imposes a structure that impedes thematic duscussion.
It's often more useful to look at aspects of a historical topic rather than just to go for straightforward chronological narrative. That's not such a major issue here, where the treatment is more or less chronological, but I think there's a tendency among all of us (I'm guilty too) to write a list of events when we should be looking at contexts and relationships as well as causes and consequences, which may cut across periodisation. -- David Parker
- As I stated when I first placed them, the sub-headings were experimental. However,I have to disagree on their removal at this point. Don't get me wrong, whith most other cities it is more appropriate to, as you said, not break up the history in such a rigid fashion. However, the history of Florence is quite extensive and can, to some degree, be segmented a bit into roughly chronological themes -- otherwise the history section will become unapproachably long to the average reader (who could otherwise simply scan the headings and get an idea on where to start reading based on his/her interest in a particular roughly chronological theme). My plan all along was to write a rather loose summary that does look at causes, effects and relationships between the different parts of Florentine history after the history section matured a bit.
- I am willing to hear a good idea or two on how to better do this, if one is not forthcoming, I will reinstate the the sub-headings (which are still experimental -- that is until someone either thinks of better sub-headings, or a better way to organize the history section -- keeping in mind that this section is going to be greatly expanded). maveric149
"undermined Medieval" what "in favor of those of classical antiquity"? Aesthetics? Styles? Philosophy? Can whoever wrote that sentence put the missing word in, please?
The most famous palace in the city is San Lorenzo, which has become a monument to the Medici family who ruled Florence during the 15th century. This palace holds the Uffizi Gallery ...
Is this correct? What has [the church of] S. Lorenzo to do with the Uffizi?
Sebastjan
- I noticed it about the same time you did and just changed it; certainly they are not the same building. -- Infrogmation 07:30 Apr 21, 2003 (UTC)
Florence is important in Transport today his massive change to pedestrian streets of the center have produced a better environment Does anybody have a picture of this pedestrian streets? Also Does anybody know the date of such conversion? I remember something like the sixties.Milton 20:03, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
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[edit] Famous people from Florence
I removed Leonardo da Vinci from the list of people from Florence, because he's from Vinci... yes, I know he spent important time in Florence, but he also spent important time in Milan and Paris. That doesn't mean he's from those cities either. --mjlodge 22:21, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Vinci is a comune 5 km far from Florence. And not spent important time in Paris. SγωΩηΣ tαlk 11:16, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Suggest you check a map, such as [1]. Vinci is approx half-way between Florence and Lucca -- far, far further than 5km. And in Medieval times, that meant a world of difference. Not sure what "not spent important time in Paris" means, but check an art history book on Da Vinci for details on his time spent working at the Medici court in Paris/France. mjlodge 03:17, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I fully agree with mjlodge. Jcr2 07:15, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
mmm... Yes, you're right :) But he spent his youth only in Florence, not in Vinci.(sorry for english) I propose somethings like:
- Leonardo da Vinci (born in Vinci)
or Leonardo da Vinci (not born in Florence) SγωΩηΣ tαlk 18:02, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] power
this article needs to state more clearly and more elaborately how Florence gained so much power. Kingturtle 07:10, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Stuff from Province of Florence
I had an occasion to go to that page, and discovered that almost all of it was taken up by material not about the province, but about the city. I deleted there; maybe someone, however, would like to fold selected bits of it into this page on the city. Here it is then, all of it.
[edit] History
- Founded by the Romans in the first century B.C., Florence began its rebirth after the decadence of the barbaric ages, in the Carolingian period, and reached its highest pinnacles of civilization between the 11th and 15th centuries, as a free city, balancing the authority of the Emperors with that of the Popes, overcoming the unfortunate internal dispute between Guelfs and Ghibellines. In the 15th century, it came under the rule of the Medici family, who later became the Grand Dukes of Tuscany. This in fact was the period when the city was at the height of its glory in art and culture, in politics and economic power. The Grand Duchy of the Medicis was succeeded, in the 18th century, by that of the House of Lorraine, when in 1860 Tuscany became part of the Kingdom of Italy of which Florence was the capital from 1865 to 1871. In this century, the city has once more taken up its role as an important centre for culture and the arts.
[edit] Art and Culture
- Florence keeps an exceptional artistic heritage which is a marvellous evidence of its aged culture. Cimabue and Giotto, the fathers of Italian painting, lived in Florence as well as Arnolfo and Andrea Pisano, renewers of architecture and sculpture; Brunelleschi, Donatello and Masaccio forefathers of the Renaissance, Ghiberti and the Della Robbias, Filippo Lippi and Angelico; Botticelli, Paolo Uccello and the universal genius of Leonardo and Michelangelo. Their works, together with those of many other generations of artists up to the artists of our century, are gathered in the several museums of the town: the Uffizzi, the most selected gallery in the world, the Palatina gallery with the paintings of the "Golden Ages" . The Bargello Tower with the sculptures of the Renaissance, the museum of San Marco with Angelico's works, the Academy, the chapels of the Medicis , Buonarroti' s house with the sculptures of Michelangelo, the following museums: Bardini, Horne, Stibbert, Romano, Corsini, The Gallery of Modern Art, The museum of the Opera del Duomo, the museum of Silverware and the museum of Precious Stones. Great monuments are the landmarks of Florentine artistic culture: the Baptistry with its mosaics; the Cathedral with its sculptures, the medieval churches with bands of frescoes; public as well as private palaces: Palazzo Vecchio, Palazzo Pitti, Palazzo Medici Riccardi, Palazzo Davanzati; monasteries, cloisters, refectories; the "Certosa". In the archeological museum you will find plenty of documents of Etruscan civilization.
[edit] Today
- Florence is a city which bustles with industry and craft, commerce and culture, art and science. Being on the main national railway lines, it is easily accessible from most important places both in Italy and abroad. The Florence "Vespucci" airport, where both national and international airlines stop, is located 5 km from the city centre. The main motorway, A1, connects Florence with Bologna and Milano in the North and Rome and Naples in the South.
(End of attached text.) Bill 15:01, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Tour of Florence
I changed the part which read, "the most famous place in Florence is San Lorenzo." I think that is absurd, the most famous church is probably S. Maria del Fiore, the duomo, and the Uffizi, and maybe Pitti Palace are just as famous, this clearly seems to be a POV statement. I also added that the Medici Chapel is in San Lorenzo, instead of there just being a vague reference to the Medici family as a whole. (old comment, but with real name now: ABart26 08:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC))
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- Agreed. San Lorenzo isn't even on many lists of 'sites to see'. On the other hand the image of Santa Maria del Fiore is reproduced everywhere. DMorpheus 14:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
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- And I'm very glad you did. It would be a real shame if the nicecest church in my home city became overcrowded with tourists because of a Wikipedia article :-) Sergio Ballestrero 18:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] External Links
Hi dear, yesterday evening I've tried to add a link that was already present since years inside wikipedia. The link in question is http://www.aboutflorence.com. I've to say that I agree with your policy about links, especially links spam. I know that this can be a problem that wikipedia should "fight" against. But actually I'm not agree about the decision that aboutflorence.com should be a spam/commercial links. Please I invite all of you to visit the site. It exists since years and I can swear is a non commercial project, aimed by young, students and net-workers from Florence. The aim is to offer all kind of information to all kind of visitors about the city of Florence. As you can see there is no banners, no spam links etc. The website is translate in 6 different language and it covers more topics (and in more accessible way) than the official website of Florence council. Actually we are also linked from them (http://www.comune.firenze.it/english/link.htm). I think that aboutflorence.com (as wikipedia.org) should be a very interesting and usefull resource for peoples and visitors, that are searching general or specific information about Florence. That's why we will be happy to see aboutflorence.com linked again from that page :) Thanks for your attention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inslide (talk • contribs).
- Hi, Inslide, thanks for your message on my talk page. First thing, thou shalt sign your talk messages. Second thing, I can read your contributions list, and the linkspam you did on Barcelona, and the talk that followed, and the fact that both of the domains that you are spamming on WP have been registered by Scuola Leonardo, as can easily be verified using whois. This would be really an extraordinary coincidence, if it was any coincidence. Regarding the content, there is some, but it's not a reference site of enciclopedic value; the real motivation behind the site seems to provide preferential indications to a few shops or services in the various categories - so I also really doubt your claim that the site is non-commercial. Finally, if you had any other contribution to WP other than those links, or complaints against the fact that those links had been removed, your claims would have a lot more credibility - but I see nothing else in Special:Contributions/Inslide. Therefore, please refrain from adding that link again: Wikipedia is not a link directory. And it does not matter how long they had been there. Thank you. -- Sergio Ballestrero 07:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Links to aboutflorence have appeared again, repeatedly added by 81.208.83.232 and Angiolo77, who also added links from the same group of sites to Milan. I'm left wondering if these sites are actually so popular (in which case, why did not anybody reply to my comment above?) or is this just a repeated offender... -- Sergio Ballestrero 16:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
These sites are the realization of student's project. Most of the content had been produced by students. These sites are the most informative sites and they are mostly non commercial. It's difficult to find so many information about Florence just in one site. Your motivations, really, are not consistent; and it seems to me that your most important interest is to check this wikipedia page to delete the link; it's very suspicious.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Angiolo77 (talk • contribs).
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- Dear Angiolo77, please check my contribuitions before putting forward such false, grave and definitely unacceptable accusations. My specific interest is to keep the pages that I do care about (and I care about Florence because I was born there) clean from linkspam. I clearly stated above that I do not consider your website relevant enough to withstand the test of the WP:NOT policy; but Wikipedia is not a personal matter, so this can not be final. If you check the history of the page, you will see that that link had been recently deleted by User:El C, not by me. And that I had previously deleted ALL the commercial links, not just that one: [2] [3] [4]. You are simply the only one who is insisting so much to put it back. Anyway, if you want discuss it on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam, or even to ask for a formal review, you are more than welcome to proceed; just find and read that appropriate procedures to do so. -- Sergio Ballestrero 19:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
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- The link counts as self-promotion; please do not add it to articles. Thanks. El_C 19:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
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OK I will study the procedure. I think that there are several more links on Wikipedia that are a lot more commercial than www.aboutflorence.com. for example on Italy there is a site regarding Park that has a full list to Hotels and other commercial sites..... I don't think that it complies with the wikipedia WP:NOT procedure. Dear Ballestrero, I do not think that the number of contributions is everything. I do not want to publicy say why I am suspicious: if you give me a private email, I can send you my opinion. I apologiza if I offended you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Angiolo77 (talk • contribs).
- Dear Angiolo77, apology only partially accepted, as you still say that you are suspicious. I fully agree with you that there are around on WP links to sites which are much less relevant and much more commercial than yours, which actually has some content and not too much commercial stuff (still quite a lot, anyway). That is just because not every page is constantly reviewed and patrolled against spam, and personally I only care about a few pages that I consider, for reasons of work or affection, relevant. The question of contributions is not about how many, not at all - it's about what those contributions are: if you put time and effort to add actual content, or corrections, or linking between articles that are related, you actually contribute to the development of Wikipedia, making it a more useful tool for users. If you just add links to your own site, or complaints against those who delete them, you are not doing much for it, and you waste the time of people who would prefer to spend that time to do something useful. Since you are from a language school, you could for example instead contribute to WiktionaryZ, or let your students make translations to and from the Italian and English WP. If, anyway, everything you care about is to have your site linked from Florence, read with much care Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia:Spam#How_not_to_be_a_spammer, Wikipedia:External_links and m:When should I link externally; in any case, since you are the author/owner of the site, you must not add the link by yourself: A website that you own or maintain, even if the guidelines above imply that it should be linked to. This is because of neutrality and point-of-view concerns; neutrality is an important objective at Wikipedia, and a difficult one. If it is relevant and informative, mention it on the talk page and let other — neutral — Wikipedia editors decide whether to add the link. (from Wikipedia:External_links.) Personally, I believe that if on your site there were no commercial links but the language school, a link to it would be absolutely fine, like the one to [5]. And, by the way, please sign your comments, and note that I did reply to the mail that you sent me yesterday. -- Sergio Ballestrero
08:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Dear Ballestrero, thank you for your private email and I publicy apologize for my "aggressive" reply. You clarified me everything and I confirm that I only misunderstood the Wiki strictly rules. Now it's time to be more constructive and i will follow your suggestions. User:Angiolo77
[edit] Commercial link
Is the feeling that http://www.firenze-online.com/florence/ is spam? I seem to be removing it regularly these days; usually added by 82.91.34.121 (talk • contribs). --RobertG ♬ talk 13:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
- Any comments? The anon has just added it again despite my requests not to. --RobertG ♬ talk 10:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Horrible Paragraph
The following paragraph from the article is horrible: "After Lorenzo's death in 1492 and his son Piero's exile in 1494, the first period of Medici rule ended with the restoration of a republican government, influenced until his execution (1498) by the teachings of the radical Dominican prior Girolamo Savonarola, whose monomaniacal persecution of the widespread Florentine sodomy and of other worldly pleasures foreshadowed many of the wider religious controversies of the following centuries." It is a non-sensical run-on sentence that might--and I stress MIGHT--be improved if the noun to which the pronoun "his"--as in "until his execution"--referred were clarified.
- Feel free to be bold and try to edit it yourself. (Though don't do what I did the first time I ever edited something and end up distorting the whole page. XD) I'll take a gander at it. -WarthogDemon 06:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- I've edited this paragraph. JoJan 08:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Incorrect relative locations of Uffizzi and San Lorenzo
After talking about the San Lorenzo Chapel, the article states that "Nearby is the Uffizi,....". In terms of relative distances, the duomo and Santa Maria Novella are much closer to San Lorenzo than the Uffizzi. I suggest that the article not say that the Uffizzi is nearby San Lorenzo. See fro example http://www.florence.ala.it/map.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.165.27.182 (talk) 00:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC).
