Talk:Flaccus (composer)

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[edit] References

On July 21, 2005, user Moriori asked, both in the article and on my talk page, for references to be included with this article to prevent it going onto the Request for Deletion page. Unfortunately I could not oblige as I wrote the article purely from memory, but before I could raise this point, users Antandrus and Master Thief Garrett stepped in and provided the necessary information. I therefore wish to express my gratitude to them for doing so. Well done and hats off to both! — Curt Woyte 14:10, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Inauthentic...

"...however it is no longer believed to be authentic."

I'm wondering if a citation could be provided for this? Thanks!

Ex0pos 02:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Certainly: I quote from the Grove article: "The single neumed line of Terence's Hecyra (861) in a 10th-century manuscript (Pöhlmann, no.13*) is not an authentic fragment of the original music for this play." This is from the article "Terence", from Grove Music Online ed. L. Macy, 9/26/05. Since the article was revised by Thomas J. Mathiesen from Warren Anderson's original 1980 article, that line must be by Mathiesen. Unfortunately he does not elaborate as to why he is certain. (I can guess, but it would be original research: in the 10th century there was no knowledge of ancient Greek and Roman musical notation, so a scribe then would have had no way to read a primary source.) Antandrus (talk) 02:35, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Makes sense. But it makes me wonder about the opposite possibility -- that knowledge of Roman musical notation may have been preserved into the 10th century. Which raises a related question: when did Roman musical notation cease to be used, and understood? I would guess that it would have outlasted the disintegration of the Empire by at least a bit. Then again, as the Church gained strength they might not have been very interested in preserving fragments of pagan hymns, or the related knowledge.

Great, now I'm confused. My mind just wandered off in four foggy directions.

Anyway, thanks for the helpful attribution and explanation  :D Ex0pos 05:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome! The usual reference on the loss of the art of ancient notation is Isidore of Seville's famous comment in the late 6th or early 7th century that it was not possible to record music in written form. Because of his central location in the scholarly tradition of the time--such as it was--it is presumed that if there was any music notation in use, he would have known. There are no survivals of music notation from Ancient Rome at all, but there are a bunch from Greece; the latest is dated to the 4th century, I think, without looking it up (you can see a sample of the notation at Delphic Hymns). Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 15:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Mathiesen is undoubtedly referring to a published research paper, but as is true for us, Grove doesn't cite every source. It would be a Good Thing(tm) for somebody to find and cite that paper. Stan 15:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)