Talk:Fitna

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HEY, y has the +ve meaning of this word been removed? This has become a biased article. Fitna means trial, test and can mean sign too as was shown by the camel sign from Quranic verses earlier.

Edip, you CANNOT use Wikipedia for proselytization. I have reported you as a vandal. Zora 00:01, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Khizar- Zora for the last time EDIP was Never involved in any of these editings. It was me Khizar. So if u have a prob consult me at 0049-511-4498174. 2ndly i must say tht once again uve shown bias as i said tht the word fitnah in arabic doesnt only have -ve meanings but +ve ones too n an example from Quranic verses was given. If u open the arabic dictionary ull find fitnah to mean TRIAL/OPPRESSION/DISTURBANCE as well.

[edit] Qiyamah

On the Qiyamah page I'm trying to inoporate as many relevant terms from List of Islamic terms in Arabic as possible and Fitna is listed as the trials and tribulations of Qiyamah. Could anyone provide more info and/or a reliable source for this? Thanks. freestylefrappe 04:37, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)." Qur'an 8:40 "If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know Allah is your Supporter."

Another translation omits this Arabic term: [8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed. [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

-- Question: Where did you get the interpretation that Fitnah is towards non-Muslims? I believe from the information that you have provided us, shows that it is for people who don't believe in Allah. Christians and Jews both believe in "Allah". If you are going to write in English make sure you translate the word Allah to God. This confuses people and misinforms them leading them to think that Islam has a different God. From this information it shows really shows me that this is really towards pagans and athiests.

Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)." Qur'an 8:40 "If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know Allah is your Supporter."

Another translation omits this Arabic term: [8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed. [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

-- Question: Where did you get the interpretation that Fitnah is towards non-Muslims? I believe from the information that you have provided us, shows that it is for people who don't believe in Allah. Christians and Jews both believe in "Allah". If you are going to write in English make sure you translate the word Allah to God. This confuses people and misinforms them leading them to think that Islam has a different God. From this information it shows really shows me that this is really towards pagans and athiests. Remember that eventhough Muslims and their leaders believed that Islam is a different and correct religion in the eyes of God, they held Jews and Christians with high respect calling them "people of the book". Most Muslim leaders never forced conversion to Islam directly. Rather they discouraged it in the beggining in fear of loosing their main tax revenue. Also remember Mohammed's intent was never to make a new religion. Yet it became one just like Christianism.

Actually Islam was meant to be a new religion, this was stated by God SWT and it was called Islam (submit/peace). The prophet Mohamad (Peace be upon him) set out to convey a message and teach humanity.

[edit] Fitna/Fitnah as a Pornographic Reference

Sorry to ask this touching religious question. However, doesn't "fitnah of the pen" refer to pornography? In particular, any ariculation of of this in relation to the way that women dress in Western societies (or, rather, DON'T dress in western societies) and any extracts in the Qu'ran that refer to the social instability and loss of good breeding practices that allowing women to walk around without any clothes results in?

My basic interest here is in Islamic notions of Eugenics.

Sorry about 'beating about the bush'. AxSingh 09:23, August 12, 2006 (UTC)

Fitnah of the pen apparently can refer to pornography... I haven't seen it from a 'reliable source' but it makes sense since it would just be art that 'causes problems' or is 'un-Islamic'... I had added a poorly written bit about women causing fitna (by dress, co-mingling) which was removed... it was valid and something I have seen in the shoddy populat literature... but, if I am to re-add it I will have to find some better sources. So, I think it can mean that... and it makes sense that it would. Don't cause fitna being used as don't cause problems that help break apart societies... You lost me when it came to breeding practices. Yes, I suppose if improper breeding leads to societal problems then there could be a connection with eugenics? Although, I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe there is a widespread belief in eugenics in the sense we normally talk about it. There has been jurisprudence on when you may sleep with your wife and things like that but I am not sure I know what you're referring to. gren グレン 09:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)