Talk:Fire dancing
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[edit] Links Removed
Adamrice,
The link you removed from this page was to a fire safety section on a webiste. It's not self promotion. Home of Poi has link to their HOME PAGE, which is designed to funnel users to their shopping section. What's so bad about having fire safety as an external link? I"m just gonna go ahead, and put it back there. It's the easiest to digest safety information around. If you can find a better safety article, change the link to point to it, don't just delete it.+
thanks.
- Since every link in your edit history has gone to the same website, it's hard to credit your assertion that it isn't self-promotion. Since you don't have a Wikipedia account and we don't know anything about you, that's all we have to go on. There is a link to HoP here, but it wasn't put here by anyone at HoP--despite being a commercial site, it's an important resource, and the merits of including it have been argued before. Having taken a look at the link in question, I see no actual safety information that isn't mentioned at the NAFAA site (also linked here) as well as a dozen other places. Some of the suggestions at that site are arguable, and there's considerable conversational fluff to plow through to get to the point. adamrice 14:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Just added chi ball (also sometimes known as a magic orb or fire orb) to the list of non-rhythmic fire apparatus Misguided Oracle 13:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
"Annoying self-promoter"? I'm sorry, I just assumed that people searching for fire twirling on Wikipedia might be interested in some relevant links, for example, a website containing pictures of fire twirling. My bad... I must also apologise profusely for imposing upon Wikipedia users interested in Huntsman spiders; it was very rude of me to provide them with links to photographs of Huntsman spiders... and for providing examples of macro photography to those researching macro photography, or examples of Canon equipment in action for those interested in the Canon company. I realise now just how annoying that must be...
- When a person comes into Wikipedia and creates a bunch of links to his own website, that is considered link spamming, and yes, it is annoying. The "external links" section of a Wikipedia article is typically limited to a few canonical outside references on the subject. Your website doesn't qualify in these cases. If you do have a website that is widely recognized as being the place to look for information on a certain subject, then go ahead and link to it, if it hasn't been linked already--though it would probably raise fewer eyebrows if you let somebody else recognize its greatness and link to it instead). Also, you can sign your posts on talk pages by typing four tildes in a row (like this, without the spaces: ~ ~ ~ ~). adamrice 14:51, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I never said anything about it being my own website...
- That's true, but the fact that you posted a bunch of links in different articles, all pointing to the same website, with which you are obviously well acquainted, suggest that either it's your own site, or you are shilling for it. adamrice 14:11, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Pedant, if you're going to change the target of the Poi link, you need to refactor the "poi" page as well (and probably put up a disambiguation page). Currently it serves for both poi the food and poi the juggling prop. adamrice 15:05, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Merger
Yes, I think they should be merged. This article explicitly refers to "fire twirling" as an alternative name for the same thing. The "fire twirling" article is staff-centric and makes some POVish assertions. adamrice 15:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree they should probably be combined, but the names for this particular form of fire performance art does vary by region. I'm surprised that there is not a listing for "fire-spinning" which is probably the most common term I've heard used here in Seattle. Hathor
While terms may vary by region, "dancing" is a fairly generic term, and can encompass a wider variety of arts, wherein "spinning" or "twirling" are not part of the art. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing fire-dancing become more generalized, and point to specific popular arts: poi, staff, fire-eating, fire-(blasting|breathing), etc. Lastly, Hathor, fire-spinning currently points to fire dancing MJohnson 21:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree that they should be merged. FeuerFrei, I'm not totally sure I understand what you mean about fire dancing being generic, and fire spinning/fire twirling not being part of the art. Can you give a specific example of how someone would 'fire dance' that would not be 'fire spinning' or vice versa. Fireguy 09:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
- Figureguy--fans, clubs (in some styles), palm torches, and finger wands are all fire tools that are not spun; if anything, these emphasize the "dance" aspect of the performance more. In the Firedancing article, I made this distinction between "rhythmic" and "non-rhythmic" tools. adamrice 15:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I feel they should both be revamped to separate the spinning tools from the movement (as adamrice said; Rhythmic) tools... Personally I fire twirl, But trust me I can't dance to save my life... There is a clear difference and I reckon you should consult someone from Home of Poi to perhaps edit both pages to what they really should be. - Moka
The 2 things seem ti be the same, the only difference is the names, which are said to be alternate on the articles. So yeah! They should definetly be merged. WordWhiz 01:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree as well; dancing is generic enough to cover twirling, and although there may be possible distinctions made, I think the activity is still similar enough to merely be mentioned in a merged article section in this case. -- Jugalator 17:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- I was about to Be Bold and follow consensus, and merge the articles, but I couldn't find any information contained in the "twirling" article that wasn't included in the "dancing" article, with more detail being located in the dancing article. With that in mind, I propose that the twirling article be simply made into a redirect. Fieari 20:47, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Done Phidauex 23:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
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Basically the articles are one and the same. I also think Fire Dancing would be a better term to use, as there are "Fire Shows" at every beach bar on every beach in Thailand and nobody ever mentioned spinning or twirling.
[edit] Fire Knife Dancing
Do not confuse "Fire Twirling/Dancing" to "Fire Knife Dancing". Although you may think it's one in the same, it isn't. Here's a site that explains each "fire dancing" styles and techniques... (various fire dancing). I am going to add this link to the article.
The birth of Fire Knife Dancing was around 1945, founded by Freddie Letuli, Father of the Fire Knife. By tying strips of towel at each end of the Samoan knives and soaking it with kerosene, the first Samoan Fire Knife was born.
Fire Knife Dancing is known as "Siva Afi" in Samoan. It originated from the "Knife Dance" (Samoan nifo 'oti).
I will add more information later, as it is getting late.
--Webmistress Diva 10:25, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- "Firedancing" is a pretty broad term that covers a number of specific tools, techniques, and traditions. Despite your objection, I do believe it covers fire-knife dancing. What is your basis for saying it doesn't? adamrice 14:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the external link of our site: I added our link back on the "external links" section. I don't know who removed it and why, but it is not a commercial link. Samoan Fire Knife Dancing was founded by Freddie Letuli, whom the site commemorates on. Yes, we hold a yearly competition, which promotes and enhances the future for Samoan Fire Knife Dancing. So, yes, it's very important that it does not get deleted, otherwise people will not know the differences. --Webmistress Diva 16:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- I removed it, and I am about to do it again. Self-linking is against wikipedia policy. If your site is really worth being linked to, I am sure third party with no stake in it will do so. adamrice 16:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] BAM - Merged
Based on about a month of silence on the issue, and no obvious objections, I've merged fire-twirling with fire dancing. Fire-twirling included basically no information not already dealt with in fire dancing, and was definately staff-centric. If at some point people wish, they could begin elaborating on various fire tools by breaking the unordered list into a collection of ====subsections==== with more detail on the design and construction of each tool, potentially including images of that tool. Phidauex 23:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Excess images
This article has too many images that look the same... We should pick one, or two of the standard 'long shutter time' fire pictures that are of exceptional quality, and then remove the others. This isn't a photo gallery! If we want more pictures, I'd suggest we break the unordered lists in the fire apparatus section into individual subsections with close-ups of the tools in question. I will begin work on this at some point soon, but I wanted to toss it out there in case anyone would like to start contributing properly licensed images to the wikimedia commons, or wants to start breaking the unordered list up for more details. Peace. Phidauex 23:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge Fire fetish into this article
I've just placed merge tags on both articles to start some discussion on this. The new article Fire fetish seems to be more suitable for inclusion here than to be on its own. Robotman1974 11:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey there Robotman1974, I wrote the fire fetish article after doing some editing in the main fire dancing article.
By many I am considered an expert on this area, having coined the term a number of years ago to describe a type of show which we were prototyping, performed in such shows for years, and being the moderator of the more active discussion forums on the topic [the one at tribe.net]
I made it a seperate entry to highlight the difference between fire fetish as an emerging subcategory of performance, and also to distinguish it from pyrophilia which is a psychological condition.
I'm not opposed to merger, if there were to be other subcategories created for some of the other emerging hybrid forms, but on its own, it would draw incorrect inferences as to how widespread this phenemenon is.Fireninja 02:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
So I wrote up a modern developments in fire dancing section and now the fire fetish article is redundant. Merge complete. Fireninja 20:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- I've tied up the loose ends. Thanks Fireninja. Robotman1974 21:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fuel
Kerosene, parrafin, paraffin oil, jet-a, avtur, lamp oil, jet fuel ARE ALL THE SAME BASIC FUEL. If you are the mong that put in seperate entries for kerosene and paraffin oil, go and have a word with yourself. Ever heard of 'research'? That sort of thing drags wikipedia down. *rant out* MrFire 22:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I see it's been cleaned up, nice one whoever sorted that section. 212.139.120.60 17:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
