Talk:Final Fantasy VII/archive 5

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[edit] Censorship

Was Final Fantasy VII censored at all? I mean, the content wasn't as strong as, say, Final Fantasy VIII's, but I would imagine something was censored. Plus, it doesn't say anything about censorship on this page. Could someone please answer to this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.224.109.205 (talk • contribs).

Not that I recall. It certainly wasn't censored as much as the older games were. Koweja 18:44, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
As I recall, some language was censored, some wasn't. --Daedalus 21:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
The word "bastard" appeared on various occasions, but "fuck" and "shit" were censored. Plebmonk 23:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
<---- recet indent

Some words were censored, some were not, which ones seem arbitrary. Only instance I could find of "Fuck" uncensored:

Computer: Cid! We have an emergency situation! A mechanic is still in the engine section of the rocket!
Cid: What!? Who is the little fuck!?
Computer: I don't know. Activating the intercom in the engine section.
Cid: Hey goddammit!! Who the #*$$#&'s still in there?

Earliest instance of "Shit"

Shinra Manager: I'm not give in to violence…and I'm not giving you my seat either!
Tifa: Barret!!
Barret: #^*$!! You lucky #$#*!
Cloud: So, what are we gonna do now?
Barret: Shit! The hell you so calm about? You bustin' up my rhythm…

In total, "Fuck" is said uncensored once, "Shit" is said uncensored 12 times, "ass" is said 15 times (sometimes occuring as Jackass), "Damn" is said 68 times, and I couldn't find any occurances of "Bastard". Censored words appear approx. 33 times. --Daedalus 16:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

My version must be different. The "fuck" is censored, and the comment with Barret the last editor quoted, the first word was uncensored(though it had an apostrophe stuck in the middle, making it "shi't". I noted a lot of uncensored "ass" and "shit" though, and after playing FFX and FFXII for so long, going back and playing FFVII, I was a little surprised by the language. In fact, it's the only Fantasy RPG I've ever played with uncensored profanity. But yes, it was at least partially censored.--Vercalos 08:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Nevertheless, unless we get concrete primary sourcing from an interview or whatever, we can't include this in the article. — Deckiller 09:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, the box says it's rated teen for mild language and violence... But I'm not sure of any primary sources that would even deal with this particular issue..--Vercalos 11:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Beyond a mention that there is some uncensored language I really don't think this type of info belongs in an encyclopedia. And even the slight mention is iffy to me. --Daedalus 16:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's the first Final Fantasy to come to America with any uncensored language. But then again, all the Final Fantasies to come to America in that period of time had to go through Nintendo of America's censorship guidelines of the time.--Vercalos 22:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
  • It might be worth noting (at least in the discussion) that the computer version was far more censored than the PSX version. Almost every instance of "shit" was removed, consistently with #^$& or similar characters. Also, certain important lines had their translations changed. "Back then, you could get by with only skinned knees", for example, was changed to something likely more grammatically correct, but weird to a long time player of the PSX version. 216.93.154.218 12:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I have the PC version of FF7 and I recall a TON of Cid lines where there was censorship as well as ones form Barret. They were all situations of anger though so it didn't impact the storyline much.

Actually there was some sexual censorship if I recall. "Slightly stretched underwear" was changed to "Therapeutic underwear." Not sure why it's better, but I'm pretty sure they did it because they thought "slightly stretched" was sexually inappropriate. (The item is found in Tifa's dresser drawer during the nibelhiem flashback sequence.)

[edit] Mentioning Midgar's future

During the epilogue that follows, the ruins of Midgar are shown five hundred years later. While the landscape had once been desolate due to Shinra's operations, it is now a land of lush greenery.

This sentence should be removed as it is trivial, unnecessary, and uhhh too minor for mention, and there is no explanation for this scene. Kariteh 10:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The explanation doesn't have to be written or stated explicitly. This is a flash forward, to where groups like Avalanche have succeeded in saving the planet. The planet has presumably recovered and is letting life grow where its life, the Lifestream, was stolen before, similar to how plants will grow after a fire desolates an area. It may be 'trivial', and it's not necessary to the story, but it's there to give people a warm fuzzy feeling in knowing that the good guys succeeded in their mission. That's what I think anyway. Nique1287 13:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that's what you think. That's just an opinion, unlike Tidus' rebirth in FFX which is a fact. Kariteh 13:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Again, the shot of Midgar being overgrown with plants is an open-ended ending, you can interpret it the way you want to. The part of the FFX ending where Tidus is 'reborn' has no explanation, not even an IMPLIED explanation, whereas in FFVII Shinra had basically been dismantled, Sephiroth had been destroyed, and the planet was allowed to recover, so it follows that Midgar would be overgrown with plants after it was abandoned. On top of that, the "sequel", FFVII: Advent Children, doesn't nullify the ending of FFVII, whereas the sequel to FFX, FFX-2, does, since its beginning occurs when the rebirth of Tidus had not yet taken place. Also, please remember to assume good faith on Wikipedia unless good faith is proven to have been broken. I only say that this scene should stay in the summary, when I was against the inclusion of the Tidus scene, because this scene has reason, explanation without too many leaps of faith, and it fits in with what had happened at the end of the game. Nique1287 15:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
FFX-2 doesn't nullify the ending of FFX: you are yourself saying that it begins before the rebirth of Tidus has taken place. It would contradict something if it began after the supposed rebirth, but it's not. It begins before. So where's the difference here?? FFVII: Advent Children also takes place before the ruined Midgar scene (which is stated to happen 500 years after FFVII in FFVII), so of course it doesn't nullify the ending of the game. I fail to see where's the difference between the two examples. The two sentences in the two articles should either both remain or both be removed. Kariteh 15:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
FFX itself gives no explanation for the scene with Tidus. FFVII does give an implied explanation, if you do more than just watch the pretty shiny moving things on the screen, for the scene of Midgar. That's the difference. Nique1287 15:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Just a note, what goes on in one article has absolutely no bearing in another article. There is no rule saying that every article should be treated exactly the same. Axem Titanium 23:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unnecessary image

I've read a discussion in the archives on why the image of Aeris' death should be kept but found the reasons unsatisfactory, not because it's a "spoiler" (which is a different topic altogether), but because it really serves no purpose in this article. The purpose of an image in an encyclopedia article is usually to show what cannot be described in words, such as how a person/place/map/logo/thing looks like, otherwise an image would be pointless if words can already describe it quite clearly. Aeris' death can easily be summed up in a few sentences, so what exactly is the purpose of this image? In addition, why sould this particular image be kept instead of the many other "iconic" images in FFVII? One of the reasons in the archives was that this scene is apparently "the most notable aspect of the story", which itself is a biased and POV reason to keep this image. I really don't see the point in keeping this unnecessary image, unless there are any other reasons why this image should be kept? Jagged 85 04:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it's because it is the "most iconic" scene in the game, according to many, many independent sources. Whenever this game is mentioned in any review or publication, the scene is mentioned and Nojima himself has said that it was put it with that intention. Fair use law says that only a limited number of images can be included in an article so the most relevant one was chosen. Axem Titanium 04:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
As well as the picture being iconic its actually example of the different graphics in the game. All the pictures on the page show a different view of the game. The images are field map, battle screen, full FMV, Nomura art (not graphic in game of course), and not full FMV (Aerith and Sephiroth pic). The picture completes the whole collection from the game. It serves more of a purpose than just to illustrate "the scene". J-Axe

[edit] Final Fantasy VII staff list

I am trying to get the names of the production staff. I want to add staff members to the article under the production staff. It just gets deleted over and over. Can you help me? I was wondering about this. I really need to put the commentaries in ther as well. I tried to help, but I couldn't do it. I am really scared and it is driving me crazy. Please help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjones23 (talk • contribs) 22:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

The list of staff is trivial. It is not necessary for the integrity of the article, and if anything it detracts from the style of the article. As I've said in my edit summaries, credits are given at the end of the game if people want to know everyone who contributed to the production of the game. Extended lists, such as production staff with no commentary, just as a list, have no place on Wikipedia. Nique1287 22:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have no idea what "commentaries" you're talking about but per WP:NOT#IINFO and WP:TRIVIA, the production lists fail to be interesting or important (despite being factual) and can be easily found in imdb or some other website that doesn't have content restrictions like Wikipedia. Axem Titanium 23:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the important (relevant) staff members are already listed in the infobox at the top right side of the page, and are also described in the Development section. No need to repeat the information in a list with no commentary. Kariteh 23:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, Kariteh and AxemTitanium, I agree with your opinions, but I was just only trying to help add some more important people to the list, but I can do that in the infobox. Oh, wait, I can tell you that there are also the full staff list at [[Moby Games. --Sjones23 01:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
If it's already there, why does it have to be duplicated here? If it's useful as an external link, then add it. We even have a template for it: {{moby game}} Axem Titanium 01:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I guess you are right.--Sjones23 22:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] spoiler

for a feature article, I'd wonder why major plot points don't have a spoiler warning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joeblack982 (talk • contribs) 10:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

See #Spoiler Warning; this was recently discussed (again). — TKD::Talk 11:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Because it's a featured article. Only bad articles have spoiler warnings. I normally notice that whenever a page has no spoiler warning, it's normally well-written and comprehensive. --TheEmulatorGuy 05:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Well said. — Deckiller 09:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Typographical Dissonance

Deleted an unnecessary comma in the "Criticism" subsection, in the first sentence of the second paragraph.

I am finding few other problems with the grammatical integrity of the article, and hold it as one of the best I've seen in the community. .Absolution. 10:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Make that "Critical response." It's late. .Absolution. 10:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

I have a few comments. I know that Kitase and Nojima wrote the scenario, but only Nojima wrote the scenario for FFVIII. How long did development take? What is a flower merchant? What is the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII about? How many staff members worked on this game? Any information is always welcome. Sjones23 15:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

A flower merchant is someone who sells flowers, and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII is all of the Final Fantasy VII related media, like Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, etc. "Compilation" is just what Square calls it. --PresN 22:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Video interviews of staff

One editor added links to videos of interviews concerning the game to the article, twice, but both times it was removed without explanation. Anyone want to give a reason for removing the interview links?--Vercalos 05:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

These interviews are part of the "Making of Final Fantasy VII" featurette which appears on a bonus CD in the packages of Final Fantasy VII International and Final Fantasy VII Advent Children. It is thus a commercially released product and cannot be linked in a Wikipedia article according to Wikipedia:External links. Kariteh 10:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
However, if the editor who added them wants, you could reference them inline, assuming you have something to add to the article that's taken from these interviews. --Daedalus 20:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Someone fix all the titles

some idiot has been messing with the section titles, please fix. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.129.198.248 (talk • contribs).

Can you be more specific? I see nothing wrong with the section titles. :: ZJH (T C E) 04:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] extreme vandalism!

Someone erased all the articles and substituted it with the Japanese flag! (ChloeSong 06:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)) Ah. nvm. I just got rid of the image, all the info is still there. (ChloeSong 06:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Orphaned clause in Development section

"As his style was considered too exquisite to be compatible with the visual format of the project, this issue was addressed by bringing Tetsuya Nomura onboard as its character designer, while Amano aided in the design of the game's world map[61] Previously a monster designer for Final Fantasy V,[64] and also designed its title logo. Nomura's style was more reminiscent of manga, and considered easier to adapt.[61]"

As you can see, the bolded line is incomplete... The clause apparently became separated from its sentence after a certain number of edits. I'd correct it but I'm not even sure who it refers to (Nomura or Amano??). Can someone fix it? Kariteh 15:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, this article is going to be featured on Wikipedia's main page, so I'd suggest everybody to reread the whole article and fix stuff if there are other stuff to fix and if they have time. Kariteh 15:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

This is why I wish we had stable versions for FAs :) — Deckiller 18:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I fixed the sentence above, although I'm not completely satisfied with how it sounds. I'll try to go through the entire article before its featured date. Axem Titanium 22:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
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