Talk:Filipino hip hop

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Contents 1 Photos 2 New section 3 Myspace spamming 4 Origins 5 Mix Master Mike 6 Links 7 New Audio Format 8 Great 9 citation 10 ELEMNOP 11 External links 12 Red links and verification 13 Cleanup project 14 Possibility of splitting 15 Myspace bands` 16 Veryfying the artist lists 16.1 Lists - MCs 16.2 Lists - MC groups 16.3 Lists - DJs 17 Removal of mention of film 18 Images - looks too bare, now 18.1 List of removed images 19 Bolded phrases

[edit] Photos

can you post the latest photos of the very first pinoy rappers you mentioned in the other page?i wonder how they look like now, especially the no so active" ones. tnx

Hi, thanks for the photos--can you please make the photos into thumbnails and add captions? Badagnani 13:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New section

This new section looks like an advertisement for this group. Can this be worked into one of the other sections?

==Key artists and groups==

Hailing from the streets of Queens, New York it is lively storytelling, animated flows, true to life lyrics, clever punch lines, charasmatic delivery and supreme freestyle capabilities that make the recipe for Knowa Lazarus' success. More than just a rapper, Knowa is also an ambitious and established businessman, and is known for his ability to close big deals for his company Q-York Entertainment, Inc. By independently promoting manufacturing and distributing their music K.L. and the Q-York Senate are revolutionising the industry thru their ingenious and resourceful marketing methods they are the definition of "making something out of nothing". Through their unique sound and style, K.L. and the Q-York Senate are erasing the divisions between underground and mainstream Hip-Hop, answering the cries and begs of the masses for a collective that represents all under Hip-Hop's umbrella.

Badagnani 10:10, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Knowa Lazarus and the Q-York Senate Hailing from the streets of Queens, New York it is lively storytelling, animated flows, true to life lyrics, clever punch lines, charasmatic delivery and supreme freestyle capabilities that make the recipe for Knowa Lazarus' success. More than just a rapper, Knowa is also an ambitious and established businessman, and is known for his ability to close big deals for his company Q-York Entertainment, Inc. By independently promoting manufacturing and distributing their music K.L. and the Q-York Senate are revolutionising the industry thru their ingenious and resourceful marketing methods they are the definition of "making something out of nothing". Through their unique sound and style, K.L. and the Q-York Senate are erasing the divisions between underground and mainstream Hip-Hop, answering the cries and begs of the masses for a collective that represents all under Hip-Hop's umbrella.

The detailed Native Guns and Knowa Lazarus info belongs on separate pages for those individual artists. Badagnani 10:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Myspace spamming

Wikipedia is not a link farm, please do not excesssively link to non-notable MySpace webpages from this article. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 12:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

If the links have nothing to do with Filipino hip hop, we promise not to include them in the article. We'll go through them one by one. These things are not easy to find and we have done this for the sake of education about this little known subcultural music. This has nothing to do with spam and the imputation is particularly offensive to someone such as myself who cares very much about world musics. Badagnani 12:34, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do not tell someone to "go away" [1] if you disagree with them. Again, WP:NOT a "repository of links, images, or media files" and the number of MySpace pages listed here are overkill. Who is the "we" you are referring to? I care very much about the Filipino subculture, but there is no valid reason to crowd this article with MySpace pages. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 12:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Origins

"as early as 1982 local breakdancing crews like The Eclipse, Ground Control and Info-Clash Breakers became mainstays in local parks and malls in the Philippines such as Glorietta Mall, which was an early hotspot for breakers"''

1. just adding info: andrew e and j smooth mc (of bass rhyme posse) were members of ground control

2. you can also add that bass rhyme posse was the first rap group in the philippines. although their album was never really a hit, they are still the first group to release an album and is recognized as the first rap group. their website is http://bassrhymeposse.tk. you can also find some more info on pinoy hip-hop history there

3. you can also add DJ KID. i forgot his name but he used to be andrew e's dj

4. you can also add rapasia as one of the pioneer rap groups in the philippines. one of the members is martin "bronx" magalona who is francis m's brother. also, rapi boys and jaimie baby.

thanks!

Are you saying that you want someone else to add this into the article? If you're sure of the information, why not add it to the article yourself? Thanks for the additional info. Badagnani 22:04, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

oh ok. sorry, i'm a newbie and i wasn't sure how things work...i'll add it then...thanks =)-User Pnoi

[edit] Mix Master Mike

Is actualy of mixed Filipino/Jewish background, link [2] [3]

I can't find any reference to this in either article (though they're interesting). Badagnani 20:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I've gotten conflicting reports about whether Mix Master Mike is of Jewish background or Jewish mixed with Asian/Filipino. Reverting his description to old format for the mean time until confirmed, thx. Wikipedian13 22:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Hey, don't remove so many links--they're good to have. Badagnani 16:07, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Audio Format

I see what you mean, but I just thought that because of the fact that alot of the rap artists (in the Philippines mainly) do not have myspace.com pages readily available (those are majority Filipino-American rap artists), whereas with the current format all the samples (both Filipino and Fil-Am) are available on one page rather than clicking to different sites all over the net. Most Philippine artists tracks are not as openly available as their Fil-Am counterparts as I had to extensively comb the net for those records. But point taken, should we open up a designated section for the myspace.com links? Perhaps re-listing all the myspace.com links under the link section of the page? thx for your input! Wikipedian13 23:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I like the "smorgasbord" aspect of having all the links (most of which have audio that starts right up when you go there). How long those pages stay up, who knows, but, then, that's the way of the Internet. Badagnani 23:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Great

This article is looking amazing, thanks to all the hard work of the expert editors out there! Way to go to document this little known aspect of hip hop. Badagnani 02:50, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I just stopped in to say the same thing. Awesome article. I'm very impressed. The grammar isn't standard all the way through, but it is clear. Nice set of images (I hope they're all properly licensed/fair use). Not too many redlinks either - many groups and people deserve a mention, but not a whole article. Great work everybody. Cheers, -Will Beback 10:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Really nice work, but the pics take a whole lotta space. perhaps they can be organized into a gallery or something?

[edit] citation

The text should also be converted to the <ref> system (see WP:FOOTNOTEs) and the external link references need to be organized according to {{Cite web}} Chubdub 13:44, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ELEMNOP

The recently added section on ELEMNOP is too long for this article, and very POV, as if taken from their own publicity materials. Can this be taken care of? Badagnani 02:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

If no response here, the section is being removed pending being rewritten in a non-POV manner. Badagnani 16:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I've just gone through the external links section with the guideline open in another tab. There was, in the end, nothing that matched the inclusion requirements. Links to individual artists are almost never appropiate in an article about a style unless they are iconic or define the genre. Even in that instance, they should be incorported into the article as prose. - brenneman ^{L} 16:35, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red links and verification

According to the verification policy, we need to be able from what's in the article to verify something. A red link, that is to say just a name in a list, does not provide any citation on its own. In most cases, sufficient references are expected to be found in an extant articles. It's per this policy to remove red links from the quasi-see also section, as well as those external links that didn't meet the guideline linked above.
brenneman ^{L} 16:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that redlink external links should definitely be removed but internal links should also be removed if they are most likely not to get an article. The subgenres of Filipino hip hop will probably get their own articles eventually so they should stay but many of the rest should probably be removed. Pegasus1138^{Talk | Contribs | Email} ---- 17:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Aye, and removing an in article red link isn't hard to reverse when the unlinked article is created so is usually no drama.
brenneman ^{L} 17:26, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup project

This article in some of its forms violates many policies. These include notability requirements, fair use laws, wikipedia manual of style, and others.

This is not an attack on the people who used their time to help this article. I am merely going to slim it down.

I will split my cleanup into multiple, modular edits.

What I will be doing

• Removing most of the pictures
• Removing paragraphs that have little or no value
• Removing ALL links to Myspace bands
• Removing ALL Red-link artists

I appreciate the work that has gone into this, but it is just not acceptable for our encyclopedia. Please list your objections or comments to my cleanup below. --mboverload@ 09:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Strongly object to massive blanking of article content (including all images but one). If you wish to contribute constructively to this article in the future, however, you will be welcome here. All editors of all knowledge levels about this subject are welcome here, but editors bent on destroying other skilled editors' comments do not help the usefulness of this article to Wikipedia readers around the world. Badagnani 09:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Everyone's work will still remain in the article, just in a slimmer version. In fact, I need someone to choose around 8 pictures for the article. I AM being constructive and I have consulted with various people about this. I will stop editing the article for a time period of my choosing as to let other editors comment.

Also, no one "owns" this article. It is everyone's, and many people would like to help make it better. --mboverload@ 09:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

More than one image is fine. mboverload, as he says himself, is not an expert on hip-hop, and therefore could not determine which images to keep. However, the number of images in the article before was aesthetically unappealing, to say the least. Upon somewhat closer scrutiny, I think a significant number (perhaps most) would be okay on fair use grounds, since at least most appear to serve valid illustrative purposes; most or all of them add to the article's informativeness by serving to identify the individual in question, which is typically a large part of our copyright rationale.

I really think the reduction in pictures, at least, is way more constructive than adding more would be. The article had way too many pictures before. The rest I'm not so sure about. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 09:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Aye, and for whatever reason we've all come down like an avalanche, and there's a pretty good reason to feel like it's an attack. So, I at least will move a little but slower, eh? I've rolled back the removal of the images, not because it was the worst thing to do but because we're not in a rush. We'll work on it together, and between the specific knowlegde about the subject and the broader knowledge of policies we'll make a better article. That's what everyone wants, right? - brenneman ^{L} 09:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It does seem quite sensible to have a "reasonable" number of photographs, which depict the most notable representatives and cultural products of this form. This could have been worked out in advance here, on "discussion," and thus I don't see the need to have edited in such a manner as has been done in the past 24 hours. Cooler heads must prevail. The statement that the photographs were of "random" people is incorrect; most of them illustrate individuals, groups, artworks, or albums related to this esoteric musical/cultural form that are described in the text. Badagnani 09:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I was incorrect in my statement of "random" people. What I meant to say was "seemingly random assortment of people related to the article" since there were _just_so_many_. I will wait until more users comment.

This is a correct assessment. Two of the regular contributors apparently kept finding "good ones," and adding them one by one over a period of many, many months. This is one drawback of Wikipedia, that the articles do eventually grow quite large as information is added; though splitting into separate sub-articles often solves this. I think the other regular editors will probably agree, once they join the discussion, that some of the photos are more important than others (as for example the ones that depict examples early in the history, which are quite rare). Badagnani 10:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

And yes, we'll all work together on the article to make it better. We already have all the groundwork laid out for us thanks to the editors who have taken so much time to add in the content we can use. --mboverload@ 10:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I would just like to say upon further review of my actions, I did "jump in" too fast without consulting the talk page for opinions of people who are more knowledgeable on the subject. I am sorry for any feelings this may have caused, I was still in the stages of "holy crap there's way too many pictures here" =) --mboverload@ 10:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It's true, I think I have never seen an individual Wikipedia article with as many photos as this one. Badagnani 10:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

There is definitely an over abundance of copyrighted images within this article. I appreciate all of the hard work that everyone has put into the creation of this page, but that does not excuse any of us from complying with U.S. copyright. Much work is still needed to improve this article, please see Wikipedia:Ownership of articles and may we all work peacefully to clean it up together. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 17:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

BBOY/BGirl Section

Where did all the information of Filipino B-boys and B-girls go? -gm4

[edit] Possibility of splitting

A possibility of splitting this article in two would be to have one article on Filipino hip hop in the Philippines and another on Filipino hip hop in North America. The only problem with this is the close links between those two scenes but I think that could be overcome with "see also"s. Badagnani 10:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, can we see what can stay and still follow the guidelines first? Then see how big the remaining article is.
brenneman ^{L} 10:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Myspace bands`

Before we do anything, I think we should start on the least controversial part. I think that is cleaning of the list of "notable" people. I propose we delete all the links to Myspace bands first. I also think we need someone who knows a lot about the subject to severely reduce the number of notable bands/mcs/people. All the red links maybe? --mboverload@ 19:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

That would be totally withing policy, and a sensible move. - brenneman ^{L} 22:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veryfying the artist lists

As anyone can see, most of the groups on those lists are red linked - We don't even know if they exist at all. Can I get a volunteer to clean all of them out except the really, really important ones? --mboverload@ 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

If the red-linked list gets moved to the talk apge here, it will serve as a good "needed articles" list. There's the guidelines for the inclusion of bands to consider when doing so, of course.

However, if there are (for example) seven groups/performers/crews from a certain region or city that individually don't meet the guideline it may be possible to combine them into a signle article.

brenneman ^{L} 03:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lists - MCs

• A.N.E. (5 Stars Productions)
• Aikee (Madd World/Circulo Pugantes)
• Al Beezy (Fully Blown Records)
• Anak Ni Bakuko (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Andrew E. (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Aukwin (Gameover Music)
• Baby Booda
• Bambu (Native Guns/Poorhouse Projekts)
• Infamous Chise
• Cris Azero (Madd World)
• Dannu (The Visionaries)
• Denmark (BlindRhyme/Madd World/Circulo Pugantes)
• D-Coy (Madd World/Circulo Pugantes)
• Dl Da Arsun (Bombard Wrecords)
• Doggmatic (Rebel Artiztz Wrekordz)
• Dojia MD (Bay Luv Records)
• Ekgnuts (Sandamukal Records)
• Mareto (Sandamukal Records)
• Esoin (FullDose Records)
• Franchizze (Sandamukal Records)
• Gorillapino Unit (GorillaPino.com)
• Geologic (Blue Scholars)
• Insane1 aka Enasni Soprano (GorillaPino.com)
• Jason Haft (JDH Entertainment)
• JenRO (Mastered Trax Ent.)
• Jern Eye (Lunar Heights)
• Johnny Krush (Mastaplann)
• J-Spliff (Sons of Rebellion)
• Kiwi (Native Guns)
• Knife (Triumphant Recordings/Scrub Records)
• Knowa Lazarus (Q-York Entertainment)
• Koba (Kontrast)
• Lady Diane
• Lani Luv
• Lindsay O. (JDH Entertainment)
• Lucky Tha Lootgetta (Gametight Ent.)
• Magnum (Kalibre Records)
• MakGee (Bahala Ent)
• Mike Swift (Pinoy's Finest)
• MistaMil (L22 Records)
• Mister RP (L22 Records)
• Nasty Mack (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Norman B (Bass Rhyme Posse)
• Pikaso
• Riccy Boy (Gametight Ent.)
• The Rtist (Da Fam Records)
• Salvahe (Sandamukal Records)
• Sketch (Kontrast)
• Strike3 (The P.A.C.I.F.I.C.S.)
• Type Slickk (Mastaplann)
• Tracer One (Mastaplann)
• Flipthug (Gangguro)
• Domino (Sagrado)
• Stilo (Sagrado)
• Kalipso (Sagrado)
• Berdugo (Sagrado)
• sagrada (Sagrado)
• Bituin (Sagrado)
• Maestro (Sagrado)
• Daze (BigDeal Productions)
• Jhun (BigDeal Productions)
• JohnM (BigDeal Productions)
• Jazer (BigDeal Productions)
• Ocampo (BigDeal Productions)
• Kwatog (BigDeal Productions)
• Rommel (BigDeal Productions)
• Yatz (BadTripBoyz (BTB))
• Dark (BadTripBoyz (BTB))
• Bamboo (BadTripBoyz (BTB))
• Mz. Aya (BadTripBoyz (BTB))
• Jhacy (BadTripBoyz (BTB))
• Hitman (Lpnoiz)
• C-Block (Lpnoiz)
• JohnB (Lpnoiz)
• Lil J (Lpnoiz)
• Ethnic Descent (Sound Proof Crew)
• MaDD-RHYMzZ Kru
• Franchize

  Please provide reliable and verifiable sources for these MCs before adding them back into the article, while making sure that each individual artist meets our WP:MUSIC guidelines. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lists - MC groups

• BigDeal Productions
• 5 Stars Productions
• 7 Shots of Wisdom (Vibestation Entertainment)
• A.P.O.K.A.L.I.P.S.I.S (Real Deal Productions)
• Audible (Independent)
• BB Clan (Madd World/Circulo Pugantes)
• Brownian Method - Cebu (Star Records)
• C4 (Apocalyse Records)
• Chise
• Chinese Mafia (Madd World/Ciculo Pugantes)
• D.F.T
• E.H.P (Dongalo Wreckords)
• El Latino (Locotes Productions)
• Ghetto Doggs (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Gulpe de Gulat (Dongalo/Coastal Wreckords)
• I.P.K (IPK-OBLAXZ Music)
• Karayama (ArchAngel Productions)
• Kawago (ArchAngel Productions)
• Krazykyle & the Rapskallion Familia
• Kruzzada (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Likalento (Likas Ng Talento) - Hong Kong
• Madd Poets (Madd World/Circulo Pugantes)
• Nuestra Familia (Sandamukal Records)
• Oblaxz (IPK-OBLAXZ Music)
• Pamilia Dimagiba (Third Eye Infantry)
• Pariente (Madd World/Circulo Pugantes)
• Phat Nasty Crew (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Razzamanazz (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Salbakuta (Dongalo Wreckords)
• Sakit Ng Sucat (Dongalo Wreckords)
• [Sumakumlaude] (Sandamukal Records)
• Sun Valley Crew (Tru Asiatik Tribe/Locked Down)
• Turbulence Productions
• Urban Flow (Third Eye Infantry)

  Again, please make sure that each of these groups comply with WP:MUSIC before replacing them in the article. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lists - DJs

• DJ 8-Ball
• DJ Apollo
• DJ Arbie Won
• DJ B.Bless (The Affiliates)
• DJ Boo (Kontrast)
• DJ Busy B
• DJ Coki (S.T.P./63 Squad)
• DJ E-Man Power 106 Los Angeles
• DJ FlipStyles (L22 Records)
• DJ Glaze (Foesum)
• DJ Icy Ice 93.5 KDAY Los Angeles
• DJ Illtraxx (Evolution DJs)
• DJ IQ (Handroidz)
• DJ J-Storm
• DJ Jena(63 Squad/the Basis Productions)
• DJ Kimosave (Spindicate Posse/63 Squad)
• DJ Kiwi HOT 89.9 FM Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
• DJ Konfusion (Handroidz)
• DJ Kuttin Kandi (5th Platoon)
• Nasty Nes (Crazy Pinoy Productions)
• Norman Rockwell (The P.A.C.I.F.I.C.S.)
• DJ Phatal (The Affiliates)
• DJ Phatrick (Native Guns)
• Radikkal MK (Death Threat)
• DJ Ragu (The Affiliates)
• Roli Rho (5th Platoon)
• DJ Shortkut (Invisibl Scratch Piklz)
• DJ Shotgun (Crate Bullies, Goodie MOB)
• DJ Sonny (The Megateam)
• Son of Mantronix
• DJ SureShot (1200 Hobos)
• DJ Yogafrog
• DJ RED-I
• DJ Clueless

  The same applies here as well. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of mention of film

What really is going on here? The initial two editors bent on blanking huge areas of content admitted within hours of their first massive edits that they had acted too soon, without first discussing here with the regular editors in this article. Now this -- an editor repeatedly removes mention of a documentary film on this subject? This has gone too far. This sort of thing does not create a feeling of community here and definitely does not help users wishing to learn more about this subject and be steered in the right direction. I've experienced the same antipathy toward this art form in the past and wish I could understand this mode of "editing." Let's please respect others' contributions, would that be all right? Badagnani 09:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

We aren't here to respect other users edits, I'm afraid that's the nicest way I can put it. We are here to build an encyclopedia. I'm not sure what you are referring to, though. --mboverload@ 08:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Please cease reverting me. I assure you, anything with only 17 google hits, which seems almost impossible since a video I posted on youtube got more than that, is not notable. I won't revert again until you respond. --mboverload@ 09:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Badagnani, can we discuss this? Please explain why you find the documentary to be notable and relevant to the article. AmiDaniel (talk) 09:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

My feeling is that editors who choose to remove mention of this documentary film, which may be the only documentary film so far to document this generally little known hip hop subculture, are not doing so in the interests of the users of this encyclopedia. If there were multiple films documenting this subject and this was the least important of them, it would be a different story. One purpose of our articles is to steer readers in the right direction as to where to find more good information on a subject. The repeated deletions seem to be done for purely mean-spirited purposes, and not in the interests of the subject nor our readers. Badagnani 09:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well then, would you care to expand upon that in the article? Simply sticking the name of a little-known film isn't doing anyone much good. Detail what the film is about and why it's relevant, and then it can be of some help to the readers. Otherwise, I don't see having this random reference particularly beneficial. AmiDaniel (talk) 09:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Until you can show a reason for this film being included, I will be removing it soon. --mboverload@ 09:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, for Christ's sake, don't revert war over this. I think there may well be a place for the film in the article; however, someone with knowledge of the film (i.e., Badagnani) needs to turn it into prose rather than list. If it remains just an obscure and unrelated reference after a couple of days, then I think it should be removed. If the point can be elaborated upon in the article, then it may well merit inclusion. Awaiting response from Badagnani, AmiDaniel (talk) 09:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

? I said soon, not now, to allow for more discussion. I have given up/been convinced that we might as well leave it there so I won't be reverting. --mboverload@ 18:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

If you've been with Wikipedia for any length of time you'll know that one of the notability criteria is being "the most prominent exponent of a style." In this case, this film is the most prominent exponent of this genre as it appears to be the only documentary film about the subject, and thus notable. It could be worked into the text or left "as is" in the films section, as is normal for other musical genres which have documentary films about them. It all goes toward steering our readers in the right direction to find good further information about a subject. Badagnani 10:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a compelling argument. I came a little bit late and am looking through diffs now, but the chain of "cite saying foo is prominant" to "documentary about foo linked." I'd normally say "put that link in a parent article" but since we already know that third party sources are going to be hard, it can live here. That first citation about being "most prominent exponent" is the vital one. - brenneman ^{L} 05:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't find it compelling at all. What, are we going to add the next student film about YTMND into the article? --mboverload@ 03:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Meow! No, think about it like this: If the Sydney Morning Herald did an article on stencil graff and named ZeBom3000 as an originator in the field, and if there was a section about ZeBom in the Stencil graffiti article, and there was a very minor documentary that was the best source of information about ZeBom, we might put that link in the article. Even if the documentary was a bit wobbly on it's own. - brenneman ^{L} 02:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images - looks too bare, now

We seem to have gone way too far in the direction of no images. I looked away for a while, but all of those images were copyright problems? Not even a fair use or two? - brenneman ^{L} 05:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Be bold! Badagnani 05:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately no, the images I kept were the only legitimate free use images. All the others were in violation of our image policy on "no visible watermark/copyright notice" or were fair use used improperly. I would love for someone to add PROPER images to the article. The thing many people seem to forget is that appropriate pictures are all that we accept, 50 album covers (fair use claimed) with no writing about them, added for the fact there were no images is not a valid reason to include them. ALKIVAR™ 04:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you be specific as to which images you object to? Some were promotional images (from the websites of musicians who wish to promote their own work), thus "promophoto" tag would apply. Others were album covers, thus "album cover" would apply. Thus, what you say is just not believable; you just wanted to "clean up" all photos that were painstakingly selected over a period of months, without stating your objection, in specific terms, to each one. Most of the artists took the photos themselves and would not object to their use here. It would be a simple matter to contact each one and ask for their written permission to use the photos, but seeing that most of them were already promotional images placed on the Web for that purpose by the musicians themselves, I fail to see the need for this formality as regards the photos of this type which were purged from the article several weeks ago. Let's be as specific as possible from now on, okay? Badagnani 04:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This statement by ALKIVAR: "50 album covers (fair use claimed) with no writing about them" is incorrect, as I recall only one or two album covers; in the case of Joe Bataan his work was certainly discussed in the article as a forefather of Filipino American hip hop. Why are such statements being made that are not correct? This unfortunately sheds doubt on your other statements. Badagnani 04:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia tends to overreact when it gets anal raped by useless images. --mboverload@ 06:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of removed images

Image	CP Status
Image:Francism-rap public.jpg
Image:mikedreamsdollars.jpg
Image:2006phha-16.jpg
Image:megateamdjs.jpg
Image:TheRockallpartiesCrew.jpg
Image:rapcrewad.jpg
Image:Left francis m.jpg
Image:ladydianepic.jpg
Image:BRP_pulse2.jpg
Image:Ppwhomiez049.jpg
Image:mastaplann.jpg
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[edit] Bolded phrases

These need to be unbolded.--NPswimdude500 03:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC)