Talk:Fiend (Dungeons & Dragons)

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[edit] Asmodeus vs. Lucifer

I reverted the Asmodeus/Lucifer edit because as far as I'm aware, Asmodeus has always been the overlord of the Nine Hells in D&D. The earliest sourcebook for devils I can find is 1st edition Monster Manual, which names Asmodeus as ruler. Is there an earlier reference for Lucifer? Muchness 04:56, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I've heard of, but not read, sourcebooks referring to previous Overlords of Hell. However, it is commonly believed that these are all aspects of the same entity. Noneofyourbusiness 14:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Lucifer is only mentioned once in any edition of DnD, as a bit of an inside joke by Monte Cook in the BoVD that refers to a non-canon article 'The Politics of Hell' from a very very early issue of Dragon magazine. But beyond that joke, there is no actual lore in any sourcebooks that name any Lord of the 9 previous to Asmodeus. The timeline of the lower planes in 'Hellbound: The Blood War' does give a point before which the Lords of the 9 didn't exist, and has their original members appearing shortly after the Baatezu conquest of the plane (but it doesn't name those original members). 'Guide to Hell' presents a radically different version of things (many of its claims conflict with the established Planescape histories and the 3e lore on the topic), and claims that Asmodeus is an alternate name of Ahriman who was a primal LN being who was corrupted by the expanding influence of evil in the early planes. 14:43, 28 September 2006

I believe Lucifer is mentioned as a previous ruler in the novel "Elminster In Hell" and the novels are considered canon. It makes no mention of when this would have been.

Lucifer is mentioned in passing in Elminster in Hell, but it's an alternate name for the (very much dead) former archdevil Beherit, who ruled Maladomini prior to Baalzebul. Beherit, his consort, and his son Lucifuge were stripped of rank and executed by Asmodeus for violation of the Baatorian rules regarding the procreation of noble baatezu. While Elminster in Hell in general is a shoddy source of detail on Baator, the mention of Beherit/Lucifer is solid (Greenwood has mentioned on Candlekeep that he relied on his original notion of the plane from way back in 1e and largely ignored the gobs of detail from the 2e and 3e evolution of the plane when he wrote El in Hell).72.37.171.52 19:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)AnonymousNeverForgives

[edit] Merge from Demons

Shouldn't Demons (Dungeons & Dragons) be merged into this article, since, as the intro to this article states, the term Fiend encompasses the various races of demons, devils and other malicious otherworldly creatures of D&D? So since Devil doesn't have a separate article, shouldn’t Demons be placed in this article as well? mwazzap 04:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be enough information in the Demon article to justify its existence, as "Fiend" is already pretty large. If anything, rather than merging Demon back into its parent article simply because Devil doesn't have its own, it would seem to make more sense to me to create a Devil article as well.