Talk:FG42

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We should standardize a bit. We have MG42, MG34, MP40 etc. I think the dash should be taken out of this name. Is there a convention? Oberiko 00:10, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 removed needless speculation 2 M60 GPMG prototype 3 Bad info 4 Pic needs editing 5 About the MG34's 6 Commas versus Decimal Points

[edit] removed needless speculation

i took out this phrase: "might have influenced the outcome of World War II if it had been produced earlier and in sufficient numbers. With production never reaching five figures its effect was inconsequential"

This is just weak speculation.

[edit] M60 GPMG prototype

I heard the M60 prototype was an FG42 with an MG42 belt feed. Is there any images of it? User:EX STAB

[edit] Bad info

When compared to the K98 Carbine or M98 rifle, the FG42 has significantly less recoil, muzzle climb, muzzle flash, etc. It's only when compared to LMG's that the comments regarding muzzle rise, flash, and accuracy apply. I think the article reads too much like a rumor and less like reality. The reality was that the gun was the first mistake of many in the realm of full-caliber automatic rifles. Later mistakes included the FN FAL, the M-14, and the HK G3. All these rifles suffered from the inability to control them in full-automatic fire. The drive to reduce weight and increase magazine capacity while at the same time adding a full-auto fire led to diminishing returns. Barrels heated up quickly while muzzle climb and dispersion opened up quickly. The end result were unuseable firearms. The Germans learned this early and diverted efforts to the StG 44 instead. Post-War powers were GENERALLY slow to learn this lesson with the exception of the Soviet Union.

The only successful and controlable full-caliber automatic rifle was only produced in limite numbers (10,000?) and that was the Armalite AR-10. --Asams10 23:45, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

First of all, sign your posts, don't indent, and there is a space after periods. Secondly, you don't understand recoil, muzzle rise, and the function of a muzzle brake. Your statements ignore the fact that the FG-42 has an UNDERBARREL gas operating system with the center of gravity below the bore, not above it. It is also an in-line recoiling gun which means that muzzle rise is a function of recoil almost exclusively. As the gun recoils, the center of gravity of the combined shooter/rifle cause the gun to rotate up and to the right. The less recoil, the less muzzle rise. Simple physics. Barrel length is relevant, not because of uncombusted powder but because of the pressure at the point the bullet reaches the muzzle. The higher the pressure, the greater the velocity. Again, simple physics say that the higher the velocity, the higher the energy for the same mass. Most of the powder is burned by the muzzle, even on an 17" barrel. The higher velocity gasses simply cause more recoil. Remember that gas from an explosion weighs the same as the powder that went into it and travels much faster than the bullet.

Now then, with a muzzle brake, you slow and divert that gas normally going straight out the muzzle to the sides. You therefore create a pressure wave that the shooter can hear more distinctly and negate that portion that combustion gasses contribute to recoil. Less recoil = less muzzle rise. Simple. --Asams10 18:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

The Bren, basically a slightly modified version of Czechoslovak Light Machine Gun (Lehky kulomet) vz. 26 (ZB vz. 26, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_vz.26) WAS fielded in German army as MG-26(t) so maybe the opening paragraph could use a little change.

You may change it, however your observation needs to include a distinction between the German Army and Air Force, both of which preferred to develop their own guns. The FG42 was also not in the same class as the BREN. --Asams10 21:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pic needs editing

Somebody please change the pic file, because it says Rifle_FG42_model_2.jpg and the model showed is the FG42 Model 1. Wilhelm Wiesel 22:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Done.--Asams10 07:41, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About the MG34's

I think someone should remove the comment about the lack of MG34's in the introduction. The average rifle section in the German paratroop batalion had 2 MG34's. (that's 2 MGs per 11 men squad) The remark about the MG34's weight is correct though. MattD -March 25, 2006

Yes, but there was a DISTINCT lack of MG-34's in the hands of paratroopers when they hit the ground. Definitely needs to be reworded. The intent was to have a stop-gap weapon that could provide a volume of fire as cover for paratroops until they could get their heavy weapons together.--Asams10 03:06, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commas versus Decimal Points

I think that the caliber designation should use the decimal point, not the comma. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style ... "The Wikipedia rule for commas and periods in numbers is, for example 12,345,678.901 — contrary to Continental style." Given this, the cartridges in this article should be named using commas. Although they are of German origin, a country which uses commas, this is the English Wikipedia. Therefore, decimals should be used instead. CeeWhy2 08:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Not at all. Historically correct designations should be used. There is no point in travestying correct designations by “translating” the numerical parts in English. Nobody in his right mind would “translate” the numerical part of cartridges of British or American origin by replacing point by commas at Wikipedia in other languages using the Roman alphabet. As for normalization, the style page is still a project. The proposed way of writing numbers is in flagrant opposition to the normalized way of writing. But then, there are those nostalgics who do not want to know about this, and keep reverting any allusion to internationally accepted norms. There is no question of language, but question of old habits that refuse to die. English is probably the language that is used by the greatest number of non-native speakers; by colonizing large parts of the world, the English found there language colonized by the world. The English language Wikipedia is probably the most international of them all, and should stick to internationally accepted norms. So, decimal points have to go the same way as other obsolete things like pounds and inches. There is no use for a Wikipedia that blocks and frustrates normalization efforts, and that prohibits correct transmission of facts.--Dutchguy 12:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• Nobody in his right mind would “translate” the numerical part of cartridges of British or American origin by replacing point by commas at Wikipedia in other languages using the Roman alphabet.

Actually, the Europeans do translate our designations for cartridges. For example, while you may think it is correct for American cartridges to be always spelt with a decimal, in the German and French Wikipedias, they use commas instead. If they like to change our designations for American/British cartridges to better suit their lingual habits, then I see no problem with universalising decimals and commas in accordance with the English Wikipedia's Manual of Style. CeeWhy2 05:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Here you bring up 4 examples of how things should be done. As NATO is standardizing to the metric system, these NATO standard cartridges are correctly called by their metric NATO designation; it is not the “Europeans” who “translate”, it is NATO as a whole that normalizes to metric standards. The commercial names with inch dimensions are left as they were historically. I’ve seen mentioned the correct designations in the mentioned articles like .50 BMG, .30 Carbine, .223 Rem., .30-06 Springfield, .300 Savage and so on. The first point is that we do not see “translations” like 0,50 BMG, 0,30 Carbine and the like. The second point is that inch dimensions are given with the original decimal points, and metric dimensions with the correct decimal commas. This is the way it should be. I’ve-checked the ammunition article listings of the German, French, and Dutch Wikipedias (sorry, I only write in 4 languages) and in all cases, the historically correct designations of inch-dimensioned cartridges were used. --Dutchguy 08:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it's best to go with the Manual of Style; in either case establishing a consensus around this issue first is the way to go instead of going around individual articles and changing them. This will otherwise only set the stage for editing wars when someone with the opposite view starts changing the designations back.--Sus scrofa 15:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)