Talk:Fermentation (biochemistry)
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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh) rated top as high school/SAT biology content - tameeria 14:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC) The article has no references. - tameeria 18:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC) |
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[edit] Merge with anaerobic respiration
I propose a merge, and migration to, anaerobic respiration. The biochemistry of fermentation is anaerobic respiration of sugars to ethanol. Zephyris Talk 13:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- This topic has been discussed on the anaerobic respiration talk page, with the consensus a merge would be inappropriate. The merge tag will be removed as per this discussion. - Zephyris Talk 00:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Vandalism
Somebody vandalised this article with some rubbish about monkeys - I tried getting rid of it but I can't see it in the edit window.
- That's because by the time you hit the edit button, the vandalism had already been removed. Wiki is great that way. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Split from fermentation
The original Fermentation article mixed together information about food fermentation and biochemical fermentation and so I created this article to seperate that. I also made a few edits. There were a couple sentences that suggested that lactic acid is the cause of acute muscle soreness so I deleted one of those sentences and I added on the other to clarify that it is actually due to ATP-derived hydrogen ions. Then there was another section that suggested that it was believed muscle soreness was due to lactic acid and that it is actually due to microscopic tears in the muscle fibers. This is only partially true and therefore I edited it for clarity. Microscopic tears in the muscle fibers are responsible for delayed onset muscle soreness but acute muscle soreness is due to ATP-derived hydrogen ions. This article is greatly in need of citations though. Jamesters 20:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
To Ww2cencor, you have already put up a tag to suggest merging this with in the main Fermentation article within an hour of creating this article. That was before I even got a chance to convert the main Fermentation article into a disambiuation page. So really what would be merged now is this article along with the Fermentation (food) article and possibly the Industrial fermentation article as well. In the history of this article's page you said "most of this is duplication of the other article". This is because the previous Fermentation article was horribly organized. I practically just took the sections related to food and created an article for that, and tookthe sections related to biochemistry and created an article for that. It was an attempt to better organize them and I feel as though they do deserve their own article just as Industrial fermentation does. I'm hoping for at least some decent discussion about this before it is decided to be immediately merged back to what it was. And even if it is, my edits to do with lactic acid and all that should be applied and it should be reconstructed to better organization rather than just converting what the main Fermentation article was before I converted it to a disambiguation page. Jamesters 21:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- I just noticed this split. I have rearranged the structure of this article while preserving the content. However, it seems that there is a lot of interchangable terminology flying around. It needs to be consistent. cellular respiration, oxidative phosphorylation and aerobic glycolysis seem to be used as equivalents. Anaerobic glycolysis seems to be used whjich is bizarre since this is about fermentation. Why not use the word in the title? I have placed a few citations required markers. The one that worries me the most is the ATP derived hydrogen ions? Where is that research published. i am having trouble thinking of a mechanism for this. i have left it in the article for now and will do a pubmed search for the research. If I come up with nothing i will remove that hypothesis from the article. David D. (Talk) 16:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree about the terminology. It is pretty confusing for students who are trying to establish the proper concepts about fermentation and the precise processes involved. For example, the article starts off by distinguishing fermentation from glycolysis in that fermentation is needed to maintain glycolysis, which is the process that actually produces ATP, but later on, it seems that fermentation itself produces energy. And isn't the process of glycolysis the same under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions? I hope someone with more knowledge on this subject than I clears this up. Unregistered (Talk)
[edit] Revert 2002.01.30
I reverted this paged to a previous version after vandalism. Furthermore I removed the following from the history-section:
- - C6H12O6 → 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2
- sugar -> ethanol + carbonic gas
- was established by Gay-Lussac in 1815 [V6]. Pasteur found in 1857 that microorganisms (yeasts) were responsible for the reaction. The alcohol created is ethanol (or ethylic alcohol, figure 2). - - Sugars involved are glucose and fructose (figure 3). Both are fermentable (they can be used by yeasts for fermentation) and they share the same formula (C6H12O6). - - - Fructose and glucose [B1] - This reaction is interesting for drunkards as it gives alcohol but it is of little interest to the yeast as it brings in 15 times less energy than respiration per molecule of sugar: - - C6H12O6 + 6 O2 → 6 H2O + 6 CO2 - sugar + oxygen -> water + carbon. gas - In presence of oxygen (O2), the yeast will choose an aerobic mode (use of oxygen) rather than fermentation (anaerobic - without oxygen). - - Steps of fermentation [B1] - The figure below shows the main steps of fermentation (a complete chart can be found page 189 in V6). The reaction can be written in a more complete way [V6] : - - C6H12O6 + 2 ADP + 4 H+ + 2 HPO42- → 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2 + 2 ATP + 2 H2O - - ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is the « battery » of yeast. The transformation of ADP (adenosine diphosphate) into ATP corresponds to « charging its batteries ». The reverse transformation is using the energy of these batteries. In order to initiate fermentation, the yeast must use 2 ATP per molecule of sugar. It will get them back just before the formation of pyruvate. At the end of the reaction, it will get 2 ATP. It is therefore necessary to invest 2 ATP in the first place to double the outlay: if the yeast is too weak when the fermentation starts, it will have a hard time starting the reaction and getting energy. Hence the interest of a good hydration and the use of a starter to avoid demanding that yeasts, already too weak, ferment sugar.
It's relevant enough, but perhaps in a more specialized article? I'll leave it for others to judge. -- Danielle dk 10:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
