Wikipedia talk:Featured portal criteria

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What exactly are the "standards set out in the Manual of style" in relation to portals? There isn't exactly a section for them that I could find. Perhaps this should be written? - Trevor MacInnis (Talk | Contribs) 04:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

This is true. It's all very early in the mix. I'd imagine that more general conventions on spelling, measurements and such should apply to portals.--cj | talk 04:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 What the French do 2 Well-maintained - an additional proposal 3 Some possible extra requirements 4 "Ergonomical"? 5 Featured content on portals 6 Using web resources on the portals

[edit] What the French do

Looking at Wikipédia française, I found their criteria for featured (or quality) portals. The following is a rough interpretation (not translation) of that criteria (see here):

The following criteria should be considered when justifying a vote on a featured portal proposal. (To clarify: these criteria were not the subject of consensus and no featured portal adheres to it completely at this time):

• Strict separation between portal and WikiProject.
• Coherence and softness of its colours.
• No red links.
• Quality of its content.
• Ergonomics (it is well-constructed, facilitating use and easily editable.)

This might be a guide to our own criteria.--cj | talk 05:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

depends on what they mean by separations of portal and project. I see nothing wrong with one having a link to the other. Rlevse 12:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Well-maintained - an additional proposal

I'd like to propose adding a sentence to the end of the "well-maintained" section along the following lines:

• Any featured portal that requires maintenance and that is not updated for three or more months will be summarily demoted.

Comments? jguk 19:51, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree, as long as it can be said that certain fields NEED to be updated on a regular basis and haven't been. A news section with the last entry somewhere in September would look bad, but I'm not sure if the "Did you know..." section is in such a desperate need of refreshment on a regular basis. —IJzeren Jan _{In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij} 21:50, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm on the fence, but leaning toward acceptance of this additional criterion. Portals are inherently different from articles in that Portals are not articles. The trouble that I see is that someone will have to periodically monitor that the portal is kept updated and then update the Featured status when a portal "goes stale", for lack of a better term. However, with a three month grace period, portals don't have to be checked every day, but once a month or so, which makes the monitoring process easier. I guess what is the most bothersome is the word "summarily"; it seems counter to WP:CON, but as long as it's stated up front in the criteria, it's less of a problem. Also, it keeps the process simple to get it started; we can always revisit it later and add FPRC if enough editors think it necessary. So, I'll put in my acceptance. Slambo (Speak) 23:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll also go along with it, but in the interest of consensus, we should probably have a vote on removal, some sort of Featured portal removal candidate, or some such thing. JonMoore 00:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

It might be better to simply define what "updated regularly" is. For "selected" articles and images, a regular update would be at least monthly. News and DYK sections should go no longer than 2-3 months without updates. If the featured portal neglects to "regularly update" as defined here, then it may be removed - either by review or instant demotion.--cj | talk 16:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

The new criteria makes sense to me. If the news section is two months out of date, then it's hardly our best work. Ambi 00:36, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

In the light of the above, I've made the amendment, jguk 11:45, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Some possible extra requirements

The whole portal idea is a nice way to represent topics and I have seen some idea's that might make good "standard" features and almost requirements for featured portal.

These are giving links to important articles and lists.I think the london portal has implemented this wonderfully.I don't don't know what the thoughts are on this but imo only offering categories to the reader is a bit scarse and not a good "gideline" for a reader.

The other idea I think is to give a link to the parent portal and any subportals,but to avoid clutter the relation between these links should be direct and not a distant relative (example car > ferrari,but not car > train).

--Technosphere83 15:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

You know, I was wondering when someone would suggest adding Portal:Cars to the Related portals section on Portal:Trains. Following the logic that you present, we should probably remove the link to Portal:Aviation and specify Portal:Transport as the parent portal to Portal:Trains (there aren't any child portals to Portal:Trains yet...)? Slambo (Speak) 18:12, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes,IMO it makes most sense to have a) the parent portal and b) child-portals. aviation is too distant from trains to be included.--213.224.243.217 23:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Is there some easy way of showing parentage/descendancy graphically? I'm thinking along the lines of nested lists here, but I would want it to use parentage lines like you see in the tree view of a file manager. Also, on such a display, how many levels up and down should be shown? So far, for Portal:Trains, we know its parent portal is Portal:Transport and its grandparent is Portal:Technology. If we follow the convention of showing two steps on either side of the current, like we have in the navbox on most year pages (like 2006), we should then include both of these. However, for subportals of the currently displayed portal, I think we should probably only list the next level so that we're not displaying too much information. So, it could look something like this (just picking some arbitrary names for nonexistant subportals right now):

- (icon) Portal:Technology
|-- (icon) Portal:Transport
  |-- (icon) Portal:Trains
    |-- Portal:Locomotives
    |-- Portal:Passenger trains
    |-- Portal:Train stations

Yeah, the | and - characters don't look very good, but you get the idea. A similar view could be used for the portal's associated WikiProjects section. Slambo (Speak) 11:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea.This is certainly a area were some standardisation can be done. I'm also would like some input on more or less making "topics" and "lists" a requirement for being featured.After all it is implementable for all portals and it also adds a lot to it--Technosphere83 19:35, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I think links between parent and child portals are fine, but having a parent or child portal should NOT be required. Ditto for a WikiProject, showing it is fine, but having one should not be required.Rlevse 12:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

If there isn't a child or parent portal (yet),it's obvious that you can't display what's not there.If there is a child/parent it would be good practise to have the link. Portals are navigation aids after all.

At the moment the featured requirements are a bit light no?At this pace all the portals will be "featured".I also stand by the thought that only offering categories as a means of navigation and understanding the topic isn't really bringing the "portal" idea to it's fullest potentional.

in short :

1. Give an intro to the subject.
2. Display parent/child relation if applical.
3. Give a topical overview of the subject.
4. Display the most important lists releated to the subject.
5. Display important categories.
6. one "good" article and one "good" picture.
7. If a project exists link to it.

I think a news section should remain optional,because it requires to much maintenance (and there already is wikinews,which reminds me is there a way to "plug-in" wikinews stories with a filter?)

The did you know sections should also remain optional and also the "things you can do".

--Technosphere83 16:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Minor quibble:

• Displaying the parent should be optional if the only parent is a top-level portal (since it should already be linked from {{browsebar}}).
• Having good articles/pictures should not be required if the portal uses featured articles/pictures by default.

Other than that, looks good. —Kirill Lokshin 16:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

On the lists of the most important aspects in a topic, I'm assuming that you don't mean that the lists should be transcluded into the portal (just looking at Portal:Trains relevant content List of United States railroads and List of railroad executives are both quite large, for example), but should be linked to. Right? Slambo (Speak) 16:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you kirill,although I must admit I forgot that the main portals are on top :). But that's only because the are text only and are a bit cluttered with the text chunk ontop.

Slambo,I don't mean that the content of the links must be in the portal,I'm only suggestinig the most important lists should be mentioned with a link.For my part you can drop "most important" I was just trying to quantify it a bit--Technosphere83 19:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Ergonomical"?

Shouldn't that be "ergonomic"? I think "ergonomical" is just "ergonomic" with a redundant suffix tacked on, similar to regardless/irregardless, pedantic/pedantical, and several other not-quite-words that I've seen on Wikipedia lately. 4.253.45.115 22:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it's more similar to ironic/ironical.--cj | talk 06:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured content on portals

Should it be considered self-referential to explicitly list featured content on portals?--cj | talk 06:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

No more so than explicitly listing WikiProjects, or other portals, or linking to content on sister projects. Even if it were, I can't imagine why we would want to forbid it, considering that the purpose of portals is quite fundamentally to showcase high-quality content. Kirill Lokshin 13:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is the purpose. But should this not be achieved in non-self-referential ways? The listing of WikiProjects is exluded from the self-reference criterion as section encouraging contribution. Related portals and Subportals are equivalent to See also and "main article" links in articles, Associated Wikimedia is the same as {{sisterlinks}}, {{wikinewspar}} and {{commonscat}}. Another feature appearing on portals recently that I see as a function of projectspace is New articles.--cj | talk 13:59, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

That seems, to me, to be a rather silly argument by semantics. The listing of WikiProjects is excluded not because it is a "section encouraging contribution" (one could make a similar argument for many unnnecessary things) but because we have determined that it is useful for portals to list related WikiProjects. Similarly, if we believe that listing featured content is useful—and I believe it is, particularly for those portals whose normal content rotation involves other articles—then we should permit it regardless of whether we can acutally find some bureaucratic loophole under which it wouldn't be a self-reference. Kirill Lokshin 14:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree with Kirill Lokshin. The criteria for portals says that it should represent "some of our best work". Wikipedia's "best work" is its featured content - what better way of representing it than on a portal? Furthermore, the "self-referential" concept itself is regarding articles - portals are designed to be self-referential. Their purpose is to be self-referential. If portals cannot be self-referential, then we should not be allowed to have "showcase articles" or "Topics" or anything of the sort. Showcasing "featured" content is purely an extension of this. DJR (talk) 16:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Using web resources on the portals

There are portals who have web resources on the portal page. I strongly disagree to have web resources on the portals, because, the web resources links motivate the users/readers to leave the Wikipedia project. External links should always be used to cite the texts on the page. All the texts on the portals come from the various articles and projects. So I suppose there is no need of Web resources. They seem like advertising. I would like to get added one more point in the criteria for featured portal, i.e. 7. It should not contain extensive external links which are not useful as refernces on the portal. We have one featured portal, Portal:Houston, which contains extensive eternal links in the "Web Resources" section at the bottom. The issue has been come into picture regarding disputed promotion of Portal:Vancouver which contains extensive external links. Regards, Shyam ^(T/C) 20:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The Web resources found on Portal:Houston are not advertising. They are city government sites. I feel that these external links enhance the portal and are indeed useful as references on the portal. Web resources/external links are found on portals, as well as many featured articles. The guidelines apparently do not state that external links are prohibited for featured articles. Why should a featured portal have additional restrictions than those for a featured article? External links on featured articles also allow users to leave the project, so what's the difference? Also, what is considered "extensive" ? I only have 5. Thanks, Postoak 00:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The main point is, the Wikipedia portals are the ports for Wikipedia articles and projects, not for other websites. The featured articles could have external links because they have texts included in it. Somehow external links could be useful to make any updates from available web resources information. But all the texts on the portal come from Wikipedia contents. There is nothing good for Wikipedia in providing external links, rather than it could harm the project. The main task of the portal is to enhance collaboration on related articles, rather than to leave the main project. There is hard possibility to come back to the portal once a user starts visiting other external links. I hope, that clears out the point. Regards, Shyam ^(T/C) 13:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I understand your point, except for the point you are requesting to be added. Please clarify: 7. It should not contain extensive external links which are not useful as refernces on the portal. My interpretation is that external links are still acceptable, but just don't add too many. I repeat, what is considered extensive? Furthermore, you request this to be added to Wikipedia:What is a featured portal?, what about Wikipedia:Portal/Guidelines? Thanks, Postoak 19:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)