Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Simon Byrne

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[edit] Simon Byrne

Well, the encyclical seems to have been reasonably well received below, so how about this biography, which fills a small but significant corner of the yawning gap in our coverage of early boxing. I have copyedited a little, and the refs are all my fault, but most of the text belongs to a Wikipedian beginning with "G" (although he asked me not to mention his name). -- ALoan (Talk) 15:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support I really like this article, and it's very well sourced. My only complaint (minor) is that on the monitor I'm currently on (which admittedly has a somewhat low resolution) the images tend to stack up a bit (especially in the "Simon Byrne's trial" section, where the large newspaper image bleeds over, messing up the header and other images). IMO, a little extra white space through some br clears would be a very nice thing. Great article though! Staxringold 17:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for the vote. I don't know how to do what you suggest, perhaps Aloan (someone, anyone?) does?? I quite like the paper cutting because it can be read if clicked on, which (IMO) brings the subject a little closer to life rather than boring old history. Giano | talk 18:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• I added it after the newspaper clipping. I agree it's a fantastic image, it's just long enough that it distorts the other section on small resolution monitors. By adding <br clear="all"> to the end of the section it doesn't let the next section start until images/other content from the code before the br clear is concluded (so some white space, but the image doesn't mess up the image). Staxringold 19:17, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Too late :) It all looks fine to me now (wide, narrow, different skins), but I see a "<br clear=all>" was recently added below the long newspaper scan which has presumably fixed the problem? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Exactly. It turns out that that one image was displacing others, which was in turn displacing others that one br clear fixed it all up, so my issues are all fixed! Staxringold 19:20, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Support. Man, can't you do something about all those redlinks? Even stubs would be a large improvement. --maru (talk) contribs 04:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for the support. I have filled some of the redlinks. This is one of the problems with attempting to fill a "yawning gap in our coverage of early boxing". The few redlinks which remain are for relatively unknown boxers, who were fairly unnotable even when alive. None of them are mentioned in Gilbert Odd's (yeah he's blue now too) Encyclopedia of Boxing which suggests there is no great information available, Google too. Perhaps they should not be linked, would they be deleted as non notable? I'm unsure of the policy here. Whatever, there are now 8 redlinks is there a defining number for an FA to succeed? Giano | talk 10:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Oh, I probably added the links - you would know better than I if they are ever likely to deserve articles. Delete the linking if you think fit. (So much for not mentioning your name...) -- ALoan (Talk) 11:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• I have de-linked the non-notable boxers, who I really believe no one will ever find enough information on to even write a stub. Three red-links remain which I am confident will one day be written. I don't think 3 in an article that long is excessive - (don't worry ALoan any comments on the inline cites are all yours...) Giano | talk 11:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Looks much better. I'll take youse guy's word that the delinked ones were too non-notable to ever get an article. --maru (talk) contribs 16:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support. I thoroughly enjoyed the article. I do note, however, that the images cause some crowding. Jkelly 06:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Striking support and Object -- many of the images need sourcing. Their claim to being in the public domain is based on their age, but we have no information on when their authors died. Will support again once image issues are taken care of. Jkelly 07:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• I think all images are now more clearly described for you. Where an artist is anonymous but publishing work in the 1820's I hope you will agree with me that he will have been dead for over 100 years. These images are also uploaded from England where copyright of a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work (including a photograph) lasts only until 70 years after the death of the author. But that is hypothetical anyway as these artists have all been dead over 100 years. I hope you are now able to resupport. Giano | talk 09:30, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• Object - "Simon Byrne's trial" has over-busy layout. maybe lose one pic? dont like any section heading "Epilogue", doesnt fit in encyclopedia, not useful to reader scanning TOC. Zzzzz 21:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure what an "over-busy" layout means - there are four images, two by two, well balanced, on my screen. I have changed the last section title to "After Byrne's death". -- ALoan (Talk) 23:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

i looked on a different monitor and the layout is even worse! basic problem is too many pictures which are too big: byrne v mckay the long vertical report stretches the whole section leaving a big blank space at the bottom of that section. symon byrner's trial the bottom-left image has suddently shifted right, leaving a blank space where it used to be. there is 2 stacked images of james byrke and bendigo thompson. making the images smaller, and removing the bottom-left image in the symon byrne's trial might resolve the problems. Zzzzz 08:28, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

OK - I have made the newspaper image smaller - does that solve the problem? Can you post some screenshots, because I really have no idea what is wrong for you - the article works for pretty much all browser window sizes for me. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

still think that section has one pic too many, but otherwise layout is better. Zzzzz 23:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support Meus amo(I like)...I had no idea who the hell Simon Bryne was until I read your article and I came away well informed. Although I do suggest some info on Bryne's early lifeOsbus 23:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I have searched and searched for more information, I can't find any more. I suspect records etc. in Ireland at that period where even more haphazzard than in England. Hopefully some day something might turn up, but so far this article seems to be the most detailed assembly of facts about him Giano | talk 06:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support: otherwise he'll hit me. Actually, the article is well structured, although I can wish that some of the cinematic metaphors ("epilogue") were cut. Photo clutter is going to be a problem for 640x480 px monitors, while they look fine on my 20" 0.19 mm dotpitch monitor. About the only thing I can think of is to put one's resolution down a notch from the highest and see how it looks. Geogre 01:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
• Support, very cool page on an under-covered facet of social history. The 19th-century prints look great, except, uh [dancing nimbly away from Giano, look out, there's a horseshoe in my glove], the Lead image artist who tried to capture the lightning dynamic of the square ring had better hang on to his day job. But that can't be helped, it was no doubt clever to find a pic of Byrne at all. Bishonen | talk 12:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC).

• Thank you for the vote. The image to which you refer happens to be a rather fine example of primitive naive folk art - highly valued and much sought after by discerning collectors! Giano | talk 12:49, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

• You say on the image page that the artist has "obviously" been dead for at least 100 years. Yeah, agreed. I think he may actually have been dead when he drew that. Bishonen | talk 12:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC).

• If you have no appreciation or understanding of art, it is not for me to comment further. Giano | talk 13:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

• Support, boxing today is such a tame affair. Tyson nibbles on his opponent's ear and everyone is so outraged. Byrne killed opponents in the ring, caused riots and went to prison (for reason that did not involve unwelcomed, extracurricular advances). We fancy ourselves more "civilized", but I think we are in fact only softer. This is a remarkable story, very well referenced thanks to the A-man and very well told and illustrated thanks to that G-Guy. A fine effort.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 05:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
• Support Beautifully done! Congrats on a marvelous article! Shall we expect John L. Sullivan and "Gentleman Jim" anytime soon? *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 21:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
• Support very nice, only comment is that <ref> breaks everything, including comments (<!--foo!-->), so one of your references looks funky (currently no. 22) Makemi 04:08, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. That's now fixed. ALoan doesn't that need to be in with 21 though? Giano | talk 06:42, 1 April 2006 (UTC)