Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pashtun people/archive1

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[edit] Pashtun people

After months of editing the article and getting lots of input from various editors, I thought it was time to see if the article could be accepted as a featured article. It contains extensive information, references throughout, and is written with neutrality in mind.

• Comment: Expand the culture section, to begin with. deeptrivia (talk) 04:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral. The culture section does need to be expanded, as per Deeptrivia. Besides that, it looks good to me. Once the culture section is expanded I will support. RyanGerbil10 04:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I added extensive information to the culture section including sections on language, literature, poetry, performance arts (including dances, music, and films) with copious citations. Tombseye 06:31, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I like it now. It's a huge topic, so I'm fine with so many subsections. I'll go out on a limb and Support. RyanGerbil10 16:36, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Object - Per summary style, when you link to another article containing more information, you still need to place a summary of that article in the main one. In this case, the Culture main heading needs to be a summary, where currently it is nothing but a link. Furthermore, the lead should be expanded to at least three paragraphs, as per WP:LEAD. Fieari 08:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Done and done. Thanks for your great observations. Please let me know what you think of the changes. Ciao. Tombseye 09:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Neutral Object -- There are too many subsection. Merge small subsections under a parent section and summarise the same. A copyedit is also reqd. eg. It states simply that if your father is not a Pashtun, neither are you. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism noted. I'm going to copyedit the page and I've eliminated 2 subsections, while keeping the rest as it is no bigger than another featured article Tamil people, which I've been using as a kind of inspiration of sorts. And the subject is a pretty big one that can't easily be parcelled out to other articles. I'll do what I can though. Thanks. Tombseye 18:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Whew, copyediting done. Shouldn't be any more problems. Cheers. Tombseye 19:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The heading titles need to be more terse: eg. Who is a Pashtun? can be changed to Definition; Pashtunwali, the traditional code of honor --> Pashtunwali and so on. 7.1 can be eliminated and history can be summarised. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, very good suggestions. I changed the titles that were too long and simply rendered the last section as women as per your suggestion. I left the history and origins section as it has some things that are fairly specific in what they describe. Let me know what you think. Thanks. Tombseye 16:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

A few more suggestions: 1) 'and/or' could be changed to either one; 2) soccer is not the commonly used term there. For the first instance use football (soccer), use football from then on. 3) I have a problem with this: ...ways akin to Christmas celebrations in the West -- comparison. Avoid comparisons that are tailored for specific audiences. Instead, focus on the magnitude of the celebrations. 4) Pathans were known be be money-lenders , and traders in dry fruits in India. can this be added? 5) Afghan Women's Network and Aurat Foundation needs to be wikified. Inform me once this is done and the fair-use pic status is clarified. =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Made good changes suggested. I don't think we can add info. on Pathans in India more than we have as that would be outside the scope of this article which is about Pashtuns who speak Pashto (and I know many have moved to India historically) today. Probably another article on Pathans in India/South Asia would more appropriate, but I have tried to at least mention the Pathans of India/eastern Pakistan as much as was possible. I have wikified both the AWN and Aurat Foundation. The pictures will be up as soon as I talk to Khoikhoi on the matter and get thigns resolved, hopefully with Steve McCurry's manager. Thanks. Tombseye 16:53, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, just heard from McCurry's manager who says that his pictures CANNOT be used at wikipedia, so the Afghan girl is sadly now gone. Will talk to Khoikhoi regarding other images. Cheers. Tombseye 17:08, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• One quick Comment. Is it justified to use a fair-use image (Sharbat Gula.png) for a derivative work (Pashtuns.jpg)? I don't think so. Please confirm. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 20:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm in the process of trying to get permission to use the picture. I contacted the photographer and he may allow it's use according to his manager. If it's not allowed, then it'll be changed. Thanks. Tombseye 22:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Support -- very well written! =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Conditional support - Make sure all images have fair use rationales and sources. Judgesurreal777 23:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Support most of my quibbles have already been addressed I think it's quite comprehensive..next best thing to buying a book--Zak 20:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment.
  • Pashtun martial prowess has been renowned since the accounts of Alexander the Great's Ancient Greeks and stopped British imperialism during the 19th century. - This sentence in the lead sounds broken, please fix it.
  • Consider using images of Irfan Pathan after requesting permission. At least, this image is under {{cc-by-sa}}.
• Glad that Tamil people (where I was a co-contributor) was an inspiration. This one will set the benchmark higher for Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups if some minor issues are fixed. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

  Irfan Pathan is a Pathan? =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to use Mr. Pathan in the article, but the article is more or less about Pashtuns who speak Pashto, rather than about Pathans (sometimes the same people and sometimes not depending upon context as the article explains). He would be a great addition to an article on the Pathans in India/eastern Pakistan though. Also, as Nichal is alluding to, some people claim Pashtun descent and thus his ties to the Pashtuns can't really be verified unless he happens to speak Pashto as well. If it's the case that he speaks Pashto, I'd be glad to add his picture though as it doesn't matter where he resides etc. Oh and sentence has been fixed. Thanks! Tombseye 16:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Thanks for fixing the sentence. Regarding Pathan, I wasn't aware of the extent of inclusion. Even in Tamil people, we only made a single mention about descendants of "tamil people" who no longer speak the language. Perhaps we need to mention specific people like Chitty there. Pashtun shall inspire us to improve that article. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:25, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks man. Tamil people being the only featured article on an ethnic group pretty much made your article the one to compare to! Tombseye 07:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

• Support Well referenced, very good work --K a s h ^{Talk | email} 17:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Strong support it really looks like a featured article now. I'll try to find more pictures, but so far no luck. —Khoikhoi 04:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)