Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Layla

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[edit] Layla

I have worked for some time to bring this up to featured status, and at the encouragement of Harro5, I have submitted it. I believe the subject is covered in its entirety, it is well illustrated, and it walks the line between eloquence and POV pretty well. In any case, it meets the precedent set by "Something". If you happen to think it is lacking in something, please let me know how it can be bettered further. Deltabeignet 5 July 2005 21:55 (UTC)

• Support. I feel this is a very good article about a great song, and know I am willing to do whatever needed to help polishh it for FA status. Harro5 July 5, 2005 22:28 (UTC)

• Oppose The page isn't that great. It doesn't even show the lyrics! Plus I doubt a song is worthy enough of being the featured article. LordMooCow 09:15, 3 July 2005 (GMT+10)
  • It is against U.S. copyright law to show song lyrics on Wikipedia. Also, there are currently nine song articles that are featured. Sorry, but your opposition is invalid and inactionable. Thanks anyway. Harro5 July 5, 2005 23:31 (UTC)
    • Also saying a song isn't worthy of being featured article is not fair reason to oppose - there are several songs already as featured articles. Rossrs 7 July 2005 14:16 (UTC)
• Comment. While we can't reproduce the lyrics, I'd like to know a bit more about the lyric structure. Firstly (macro), I'd like to know the verse chorus bridge order (e.g. v-c-v-c-v-b-c). Secondly (micro), I'd like to know the meter and the time signature; I guess it's mostly 4/4, but as it shifts moods does it shift signature too? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk July 5, 2005 23:57 (UTC)
  • I'm trying to figure out how to segue that kind of thing in gracefully; the time is all 4/4 according to the TAB book I have, and the order is intro-v-c-v-c-v-c-c-b (if you call the solo the bridge). I'm not much of an expert on meter, but just counting the syllables it seems a little erratic. Most likely, ol' Slowhand was too bothered with the heroin and unrequited love to count the iambs. I'll pop in the time and order though. Deltabeignet 6 July 2005 02:07 (UTC)

Comment: Iambic tetrameter, aabb, ccdd, etc. It's normal or acceptable to have a trochee as the first foot of an iambic line. Geogre 6 July 2005 02:31 (UTC)

Correction: Oops. The above is true for the chorus. The verses are abcb -- the normal rock lyric rhyme scheme -- and their meter is more irregular, actually going into a 3 syllable foot --' --'. Inneresting. Geogre 6 July 2005 11:44 (UTC)

• Neutral for the time being. Would like to see the smaller sections combined into one. References should follow the format of Wikipedia:Cite sources. Lead section could do with a bit of expansion. Not too sure whether the MoS indicates quotes should be italicised. Support. Johnleemk | Talk 6 July 2005 14:28 (UTC)
• Oppose. Technical problems: references are ill-formatted, lead section insufficient, structure (too many, too small sections). Phils 6 July 2005 18:48 (UTC)
  • I have cleaned up the references, merged the smaller sections, and expanded the lead to four sentences, the same as featured song article A Day In The Life. The quotes are mostly just italicised to look nice; the MoS says there is "usually no need to put quotations in italics unless the material would otherwise call for italics", but I prefer the appearance it gives. However, if this is an issue, I'd be glad to fix it. Either way, I hope both of you will consider changing your votes. Deltabeignet 6 July 2005 20:22 (UTC)
    • Now scrap the self-reference to WP article Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs and you have my support. Phils 7 July 2005 11:19 (UTC)
      • Tis gone. Before you give your final support Phils, can we have your thoughts on the italicising of quotes. Thanks. Harro5 July 7, 2005 11:39 (UTC)
        • Italicized quotes are ok by me. First because that formatting is used in many articles, and second because it makes sense. The idea is that it makes the quotes stand out from regular text, which can be useful when the quotes are embedded in "regular paragraphs". Most often, Wikipedia articles undergo cursory reading or just a quick scanning by visitors. Italicized quotes make it less likely for people to mistake reported words for information provided by WP contributors. I am fully aware that the use of italics is not consistent throughout WP, but I don't really have a problem with this; the MoS provides some useful guidelines, but as long as the formatting is consistent across the entire article, small differences between articles are fine. That said, I support this FAC. Phils 7 July 2005 15:11 (UTC)
• Support. The lack of lyrics is regrettable but necessary. The audio sample is - I assume - legit (fair use?) and helps, particualrly seeing as it is a bit of the song with "that" Clapton guitar riff. Songs are tricky subjects to wirte objectively about, and this article is pretty NPOV, at least enough to get my support. Stuff about background, song, releases etc covers just about everything people could want to know about Layla except the words (link provided) and what it sounds like (sample provided) so it touches all the bases. Overall, good work. Look forward to it being an FA! Batmanand 6 July 2005 21:12 (UTC)
• Not necessarily an objection, but I'm surprised that there is no mention of John Fahey's cover of the song. Also, we should probably give an Arabic-script rendering of "Majnoun". -- Jmabel | Talk July 6, 2005 22:29 (UTC)
  • The John Fahey bit is in there now. As far as the Arabic script, I'll leave that to someone who can read Arabic. Deltabeignet 6 July 2005 23:24 (UTC)
  • I found a site that claimed to be able to translate Roman characters to Arabic, and it gave me مَجنٌ when I put in "Majnoun". Still, it's probably wisest to wait for someone who can read Arabic to check it. Deltabeignet 6 July 2005 23:38 (UTC)
    • Those characters do read as "majnun," (not "majnuun," though ... the waaw is missing) however it's a Persian name, not an Arabic one, so I'd check with someone who knows that language better than I do. Daniel Case 7 July 2005 03:54 (UTC)
• Support, but suggest that the long italicized quotes are better being set off in a block format.Daniel Case 7 July 2005 03:51 (UTC)
  • Also, wouldn't it be worth adding that Patti Boyd also inspired "Something," when she and George Harrison were still married? How many women can say they inspired not just one but two great rock love songs?Daniel Case 8 July 2005 04:47 (UTC)
• Support, good article, looks like it should be featured material. Phoenix2 7 July 2005 05:10 (UTC)

• Support: Not hagiographic, not excessive, not POV, and, although I try to never vote for songs, this is pretty much the exemplar of a song that is important enough to get an encyclopedia article (as opposed to, say, something currently charting or "Disco Duck"). Geogre 7 July 2005 12:21 (UTC)
  • Comment supplemental: There was something that had occurred to me and then slipped my mind. "Layla," like the other song frequently mentioned, "Stairway to Heaven," was one of the songs that defined AOR FM (Album Oriented Rock) in the US. That format was very important for saving a number of FM broadcasters who were in danger of having no listeners, as they couldn't compete on a chart-basis with AM and needed some way to turn their lack of advertisers into a draw. Hence, they began playing long songs. Stairway, Layla, and various Pink Floyd songs (notably "Welcome to the Machine") were staples and definitions of AOR. Geogre 7 July 2005 16:32 (UTC)

• Support informative and well structured. Rossrs 7 July 2005 14:16 (UTC)
• Object, doesn't seem comprehensive. It's a famous song, I'm sure there's more to say. Everyking 7 July 2005 16:18 (UTC)
  • James, we've discussed this before; unless you can be more specific, it's hard to nail down a specific concern. Would you like more specific chart trivia, details of the single's design? Johnleemk | Talk 7 July 2005 16:21 (UTC)
• Object. The image Image:Boyd2.jpg does not have copyright information. --Carnildo 7 July 2005 18:43 (UTC)
  • I have uploaded the fair-use Image:Harrison and boyd screenshot.PNG and replaced the uncertain copyright picture. Too bad, though; the old one was so nice. Deltabeignet 7 July 2005 20:56 (UTC)
    • I don't suppose you've got a free-use image that could be used instead? Wikipedia should try to avoid fair-use images if at all possible. --Carnildo 7 July 2005 23:57 (UTC)
    • That we probably should, but I haven't been able to find anything with confirmed free status. Any idea where to get PD celebrity photos? Deltabeignet 8 July 2005 01:21 (UTC)
      • That would be like seeing pigs fly. Hehe, but I think fair use is fine. If we get too strict, it'll be hard to build ane encyclopedia. After all, screencaps from TV/movies, single/album covers and the like are all fair use. How can you conceivably have a decent article about a movie without a still from it? Johnleemk | Talk 8 July 2005 17:22 (UTC)

• Comment Verse is in the key of E. The verse starts on the chord C#m to be sure, but that doesn't mean that's the key. C#m plays the role of the VI chord of the key of E, not the I chord of the key of C#m. The changes are VI - III - VI - (bVII-VII) - I - IV - V - I - VI - II - V - I. The I - VI - II - V - I pattern is common, and that makes the I the E chord. If the key of C#m is what's in the quoted reference, I believe that reference is incorrect. The song then goes up a fourth to a passing A chord and then up another fourth from A to the key of D for the chorus. 67.140.11.125 19:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)Skydog