Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lastovo/archive3

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[edit] Lastovo

We did necessary changes from last time. Really good article. Luka Jačov 16:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC) —This unsigned comment was added by Luka Jačov (talk • contribs) 13:59, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

  • Oppose. It has not improved since the previous nominations (still no inline citations and the lead is still short) and no rationale for the nomination was given. —Cuiviénen, Sunday, 2 April 2006 @ 01:15 (UTC)
  • Comment Please use the no-break space between numbers and their units of measures:   (for example: 5 km instead of 5km), as per WP:MOSNUM. In addition, please provide the converted values of the numbers. AndyZ t 14:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • ObjectComment I'd axe the trivia section, there's a random 46 fact, speculation, rumors, and a random quote. Also, you've got multiple references to footnotes, but the references are not repeating numbers as they should. I'd recommend switching to the <ref> system to fix that. What are those references, by the way? Books? If so, they need publisher info and page numbers. Image:Fumari small.jpg needs the licensing problem below cleared up. That silly sentence about "46" still needs to be removed. Pagrashtak 15:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - per nomination Luka Jačov 16:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - article seems to fulfil all the criteria. --estavisti 17:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 19:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - Very beautiful article. --GTubio 20:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Object - Image:Lastovokarta.jpg looks like a scan from a commercial atlas to me, which seems to imply that the {{Template:GFDL-self}} tag is incorrectly applied. How about a proper, user created, ideally SVG, map? Also, references are somewhat lacking. What's the source for the various statistics in the article, like population ethnicity and sun-hours-per-year? They obviosuly come from somewhere, it's not the kind of thing a contributor can measure for themselves. --zippedmartin 22:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • See Image:Lastovo.svg, I started working on this last FAC. Still needs some work but I think can be made into a nice map. --Duk 23:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
    Ah yes, that's the right kind of thing... but why has Uvouvo uploaded a jpeg of all things as a map... maybe you can kick him into being sensible. --zippedmartin 07:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
    Hehe, i know. I dont know how to edit SVG, but wanted to quickly replace the map. In time though i may create an SVG format Uvouvo 22:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
    Your map looks good. For editing SVGs I use Inkscape or Sodipodi, both are open source and easy to use. --Duk 01:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment- I may be inhaling hallucinogens, but no one's noticed the numerous usage errors.
  1. There is an amazing number of churches. Doesn't sound too encyclopedic.
  2. Lastovo, like the rest of Roman Dalmatia was settled by Illyrians. Extra comma needed?
  3. In the 13th Century Lastovo joined the Dubrovnik Republic Comma, again.
  4. The island of Lastovo belongs to the central Dalmatian archipelago lying 13 km south of Korčula making the island one of the most remotely inhabited islands in the Adriatic. Run-on, add a few commas or split it up
  5. and a Group of islands Group is lowercase.
  6. Another small island Prežba is actually Prežba should maybe be an appositive?
  7. Lastovo has a very dynamic . Avoiding the verys is a good idea
  8. Lastovo along with Mljet are among the Adriatic islands richest in forests with a high percentage of coverage, mostly pine and Mediterranean underbrush. Commas btwn Lastovo and Mljet.
  9. There are five caves on the island, the largest being Rača, Puzavica, Pozalica, Grapčeva and Medvidina. If there are only five caves on the Island, the five you listed can't all be the largest.

and there are more grammar errors, but since I don't know anything abot Lastovo, I may be wrong...Also, shouldn't history come first? Get rid of Trivia, or rename it. -Osbus 22:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment Thanks for the comments. I majorly re-wrote this article. I'm glad for the support votes, however more glad for the guys that left suggestions and highlighted problems. Thanks for the suggestions I will work to have them all addressed in the next few days. I'm new to wiki myself which is why I wasnt sure about a lot of things you guys would find obvious. I agree with the map, it is a ripoff, and i pointed that out to the uploader a while back. I'll fix up the SVG one Duk posted. I will also fix up the grammar and remove words such as "Amazing" and try make the general tone more encyclopedic. I will try to figure out and include numbered references as close as possible to data. However, I was worried about putting a reference near every stat because the article would then be full of them. Please, more suggestions are welcome! Cheers Uvouvo 23:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose based on the Trivia section -- I won't support any article with such a thing.
    • "Famous Lastovci" looks awfully short; it ought to be expanded and moved to its own page.
    • "The main settlement of the island is unusually different to the settlement of other islands in that it faces away from the sea" -- awful construction
    • "It is believed that the reason" -- weasel word
    • Geography is almost entirely uncited
  • Other than that, it really does look good. Tuf-Kat 22:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm stuck on what to do with Trivia. Maybe remove superflous entries and merge it with People into a seperate section with a different name, such as 'People and Facts' for lack of a better title - Any suggestions? I have sorted out the map, and need to add numbered references closer to the appropriate text as well as a grammatical check again. Maybe tomorrow night. Uvouvo 00:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I think all but the first and the last can and should be merged elsewhere. The first is a coincidence of no encyclopedic relevance unless someone somewhere has made a big deal out of it; the last is just an out-of-context quote by someone who has no particular authority on the topic in question, AFAIK. The chimney and the lighthouse could both go in any of the topics, but I think culture is the best fit (could be part of a paragraph on tourism?). The statues thing is kind of confusing -- how did this shipwreck turn into buried statues? It sounds like a notable local legend that should be a paragraph under Culture. The vampire thing could go in culture or history, probably better in History unless Lastovo is significantly known for vampirism outside of this incident. Tuf-Kat 01:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Thanks, good idea. I have axed the Trivia section, and merged the two architecture facts into culture. I removed the statues for the time being but might re-include later? Leaves only a grammar check / fix, and accurate and numbered referencing throughout. Once completed, the article should be ready. Give me a day or two. :) Uvouvo 01:51, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment The redlinks should be removed or stub articles created. - FrancisTyers 02:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
    Sigh... Wikipedia benefits from articles linking relevant topics that need writing, especially in articles that might get more attention. Relevant redlinks should *never* be 'removed', nor are substubs any better. --zippedmartin 07:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose, copyright needs to be cleared up for Image:Fumari small.jpg and Image:LastovoTown.jpg(see note below), which seem to have been previously published on [1]. --Duk 03:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment, LastovoTown was taken off my digital camera in 2004, its from a common look-out point of the road which is why it looks so similar - I have it in 5MP res as well. User Luka Jacov uploaded fumar which looks like a ripoff though, maybe he can clear that up. He reverted the changes I made above though Uvouvo 10:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, sorry about that, I should have looked closer at your picture, it's clearly not from the site I noted above. --Duk 17:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment, Ok i have undone user Luka Jacov's revert, which means i have re-integrated the Trivia section in the rest of the article. It makes more sense this way. I have also redone the referencing, made it closer to the appropriate data, and used the <ref name=XXX> scheme. I have also given it a general re-read and tidied any obvious grammar errors. I think its about ready and most of the objections have been met. I'm not to fussed about it becoming a FAC, and it should only if it is ready / worthy. I didnt even nominate it, and i probably won't vote for it. I'm just interested in improving the article of the place of my ancestry :) Any more suggestions are more than welcome, as i am new to wikipedia! Uvouvo 11:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
* The only gripes it seems is that 'Fumar' image (i can swap it, but Luka has fixed the licensing apparantly). Grammar largely fixed, and Trivia section is gone, which removes most of the above opposition. The only other issues raised is the 46 reference. I have moved this into the article and dont see a further problem with it. I can overlook the fact that one wikipedian does mind it, but if there are others then let me know and we can remove it. Also the other thing that seems to bother people is the book references. The references are now inline and in the correct format. I dont know how to use the book template so if someone wants to do that then fine. Apart from that the article I think is ready without any more major edits. Uvouvo 03:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --dcabrilo 09:04, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support --millosh (talk (sr:)) 10:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Object --Copyright needs to be cleared up for Image:Fumari small.jpg; we simply can't have FA's that copyvio tags on an image. Fix this and I'll change my vote. Image released to public domain. Rlevse 11:58, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

&Weak Support. Good way to a fine article. Needs improvments, thout (see to the up). --HolyRomanEmperor 15:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

  • OK, swapped user Luka Jacov's image (chimney) with one of a male in national dress. Hopefully user Tuf-kat, Duk, Rlevse and Zippedmartin have no more objections. Maybe some of the users can cross out old objections that have since been fixed, and post new suggestions / objections. Cheers Uvouvo 08:40, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
still object What guy in national dress? Image:Fumari small.jpg is still there. Rlevse 14:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I put it on a a few hours ago, but user Luka Jacov reverted it (see history). I guess he is sure about the chimney photo's license. Can you check his user page or maybe he can clear it up here once and for all. I dont mind the image as long as its ok to use. Uvouvo 15:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
See the discussion at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2006 April 11 --Duk 18:56, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
IF his view is correct, then only the tag needs changed. Rlevse 12:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Object. Incomprehensive: nothing about economy, administration and other things one would expect from a town article. If it was an uninhabited island, I'd say the coverage is good, but as it is it needs at least one major section the town, and preferably the article should be split between Lastovo (island) and Lastovo (town).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Good point. Rlevse 12:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
You make a fair point. However, the population is so insignificant though, that a seperation of the town and the islands dont really make sense. There is no real local government (apart from a council), as it falls under the wider area. I guess that information could be included as a section or a significant paragraph, but it is not as major as you might expect. The town is the island, so to speak. Uvouvo 23:23, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
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