Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)/archive1

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[edit] Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)

Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) exemplifies a featured article because it is informative, well written, balanced and easy to maneuver through. It contains all basic knowledge about Enter the Wu-Tang as well as many other significant facts taken from balanced and reliable sources. Almost every image found in this article has a rationale for fair use and all information follows suit. Noahdabomb3 23:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Looks good. Powelldinho 15:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Some issues:
• Lead is quite short
• Most of the "Conception" section seems like it belongs on the Wu-tang clan page.
• "it was described as cramped" makes no sense, the studio or the album?
• "That single was recorded under" which one, the last sentence talks about 2 singes.
• "which shows how sparing he was with beats." seems like personal analysis therefore original research.
• "Raekwon for who had rights to RZA's beat." makes no sense.
• "are rarely considered to be "gangsta" lyrics" by whom?
• Alot of wierd sounding prose: "Most samples are musical"
• "has made RZA a major influence on the sound of Kanye West and Just Blaze." cite?
• confusing prose: "and six music videos including the singles as well as..."
• "Although "C.R.E.A.M." was the most popular of all tracks" cite?
• "it is generally hailed as one of the best hip hop albums of all time." cite?
• "Critical Recognition" section mentions little of reviews at the time but much later reviews, and what happened to the sales figures?
• "is one of the most celebrated and influential albums in hip hop history." cite?
• Can't "Samples" be merged with "Track listing"?

Overall it needs a good copyedit because it doesn't really flow smoothly. I didn't really touch on the prose problems but I'm sure someone who is more familiar with writing can give much better advice then me. Good luck. - Tutmosis 00:05, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment (Response)
• I read through and changed all the articles' problems that you cited. I feel that it is easier to read right now and that you should support my featured article nomination.
• By the way, the conception information should be added to the Wu-Tang Clan article, but is necessary to the Enter the Wu-Tang article also.

Noahdabomb3 22:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. The infobox is too big and distracting. This is a Wu-tang clan album, so you add only its chronology. CG 08:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I agree that the lead is too short and that the infobox needs to be shortened. It also needs a copyedit to ensure that it is well-written. Problems include not capitalizing proper nouns like "East Coast", capitalizing not-proper nouns like "gangsta rap", not italicizing album, movie, magazine titles, and not using normal capitalization in section headers. Also, I think overall the use of blockquotes is too pervasive, and some of them should be shortened and worked into the flow of the text. Tuf-Kat 14:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment (Response)
• That's all fair Tuf-Kat and CG. I will try to copyedit the article and increase the size of the opening paragraph as soon as I can get to it. Noahdabomb3 15:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment (Response)
• I changed and quickly copy-edited the article and am ready to hear the second round of support and critique. I do have one question though - is it OK that all small quotes in my article are italicized so that they stand out. Wikipedia's copy-editing article says nothing regarding to that.

• Support Hells yeah, mutha fucka. Greatest album ever made. --PDTantisocial 00:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

• Support Great work! Chubdub 17:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

• Object—Poorly written. Here are random examples of why the whole text needs serious copy-editing.
  • "It also contains hardcore, humorous and out of the ordinary lyrics provided by all nine original Wu-Tang Clan members and no guest vocalists." What is "hardcore" in this context? And out-of-the-ordinary lyrics? Vague. "Provided by ... no guest vocalists" is very odd wording, and at the very least assumes far too much background knowledge.
  • "Today it is heralded as one of the most influential rap albums of the 1990s." Remove "Today". "Heralded" is the wrong word ("regarded"?). The lead is slightly on the side of puffery.
  • "the late 1980's"—The NYT is the only publication that persists with this bizarre apostrophe. Please don't.
  • "They only pressed 500 copies of that single[6] as opposed to the "Protect Ya Neck"/"Method Man" single which sold over 10,000 copies." They only pressed, rather than pressing and steaming? Shift "only" to later in the sentence. In any case, pressing is set up against selling—fuzzy.
  • The use of commas is, to some extent, a matter of personal preference. But in this prose, most editors would agree that more are required for easy reading. (e.g., one before "as opposed to" in the previous point.
  • Inconsistent use of past and present tenses when referring to recordings.

It's a long way from meeting Criterion 1a, throughout. Tony 12:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• Object Prose issues per Tony, some of the references need to be cleaned up and expanded (let us know what the website is and correct the bad links), and better referencing is needed. I found this uncited statement, for example: "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) is one of the most celebrated and influential albums in hip hop history." Sandy (Talk) 04:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment (Response)-
• I recently improved all of the references Sandy. That unreferenced statement that I made was already referenced earlier in the article when I made the same point. I assume I am still supposed to reference it and I will. Thanks for pointing that out.
• I also did a little copyediting and will continue to do more of that Tony. I improved all of the examples of "poor" writing that you pointed out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noahdabomb3 (talk • contribs) 12:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

• Comment 2:

These still have no citations:

The album being a debut may have had a negative effect on the Wu-Tang as none of their other group albums touched the surface of its critical success.

Others suggest that only a few Wu-Tang members are distinct and charismatic.

Although some accuse Wu-Tang Clan's debut album of poor subject matter and inconsistent production, it is generally hailed as one of the best hip hop albums of all time.

It is generally acclaimed as a great album because of its gritty production and comical rhyming.

It's acclaim is not limited to American publications; it is generally regarded as a classic album internationally.

Wu-Tang Clan's debut was able to shift the emphasis away from the melodious, synth-driven G-funk, while restoring interest into the East Coast hip hop scene.

RZA's production on Wu-Tang Clan's debut album set a benchmark for much hip hop production that came after it.

Why are the quotes in italics? What the point of that "studio was frequently cramped." sentence? Inconsistency in refering to the Wu-tang clan, instances of refering to them as "Wu" and "clan". "Most samples are musical and come from songs" sounds a bit obvious. Should be checked for redundancy wording. A couple of statements which "may" have happened (since you used "may" in them), they should be rephrased. Thanks. - Tutmosis 23:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment (Respone)

I went through all of the quotes mentioned and referenced them except the ones that I went on to give various examples of in the next sentences. I also removed the quotes from italics User:Tutmosis and corrected the comment I made about samples. I will soon change all of the times where shortened names of Wu-Tang Clan are mentioned and make them either Wu-Tang Clan or Wu-Tang, not the Clan or Wu. I will also sign this comment :) Noahdabomb3 23:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment:I would suggest dewikilinking all the tracks that are red links, it's not visually appealing and I wouldn't want a message given that articles should be created for every song to new users. My last issue is really up to you if you want to change it but the "Music videos" and "Singles" sections seem quite unecessary and don't seem to have any visual charm, but prolong the list heavy feeling of the end of the article with all those tables. Anyway this won't stop me from supporting. See below. - Tutmosis 20:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support, the prose (flow and akward phrasing) has definetely improved. That was a major concern for me, along with the uncited statements above. I would encourage you to continue to improve the prose and ask any experienced editors for copyedits (it might still not be good enough for a prefessional eye), since my writing skills I assume are average. Anyway, great work with the article, definetely a classic album for any collection and important part in the history of hip hop. - Tutmosis 20:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)