Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bengali language

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[edit] Bengali language

The article is well written, referenced and stable. The remaining issues should be easily fixable in response to community input. Thanks.--ppm 07:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment. After a quick look it seems that everything required is present, but a copyedit may still be required. I have done a sample copyedit in the lead section, especially with respect to dash usage. Also, there are a few completely unreferenced sections. I believe the information is present in one of the general references, but needs inline addition. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 08:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Support about time this baby got FA status. Per Ambuj, a copyedit is required, especially keeping consistently with Commonwealth English. Rama's arrow 12:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - this is an informative article. -- P.K.Niyogi 03:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong SupportComment - Try to address to the reference needed tags added by me. The lenght of the article is quite long try to make it short. Regional Variation can be incorpoarted into the dialect part. Some more reference is needed. Amartyabag 06:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
citations for tags provided--ppm 09:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
seeing the importance of the topic, i think that the length can be considered. With some good references, and changes I place a Strong Support for this artcle. Amartyabag 06:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. The map would be more accurate if the places where Bengali speakers are concentrated in diaspora countries are marked, like the French language map. The current map gives the impression that Bengali is spoken all over US, Canada and Australia. CG 14:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
done--ppm 03:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Not brilliant prose.
    • "In particular, the eastern region language known as Abahatta (with considerable overlap with Purvi and Magadhi Apabhrangsha), began to emerge by the seventh century CE." I don't understand what the "In particular" is doing here. I don't know what is overlapping with what.
    • "Chinese traveler Hiuen Tsang noted that the same language was spoken in most of Eastern India." Which language?
    • "Bengali as a separate linguistic identity may have emerged around 1000 CE," What is "a separate linguistic identity"?
    • "three (sometimes four)" Only three periods are listed; if it is sometimes four I am curious what the fourth is.
    • The list of periods uses too many colons.
    • "Nathaniel Brassey Halhed, a British grammarian, was the first to write a Bengali grammar using Bengali texts and script for illustration: A Grammar of the Bengal Language (1778)." Was this the first Bengali grammar, period, or the first to use Bengali texts and script for illustration? Also the colon would be better as a comma.
Tried to address all specific problems.--ppm 08:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Excellent work. Let me know when the rest of the embedded comments are addressed and I will be happy to vote Support. --Ideogram 08:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
The prose is now very good. I am pleased to change my vote to support. --Ideogram 19:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This article is already better than the average featured article, but I think you (and the rest of Wikipedia) can do better. --Ideogram 15:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Support - The section on Chaltibasa and Sadhubasa needs some work, I didnt really feel the flow. I'll find the problem sentences, and try to work those out. Otherwise its well-referenced and interesting.Bakaman Bakatalk 21:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. The phonology section is very dominant and extensive for a general article on Bengali. I recommend that it be summarized and that Bengali phonology be established. / Peter Isotalo 00:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Did the "establisheent" part, will leave summarization to experts--ppm 07:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Upon a closer reading, I've found other problems:
  • It's extremely dense. The IPA in combination with the Bengali script and the very technical prose makes it quite incomprehensible to anyone who isn't really into phonetics. To put it bluntly, it's a really potent eye-glazer to the vast majority of our readers.
  • I question the need to use Bengali script to such an extent, since the only ones who are able to read it should have little or no problem understanding the romanization.
  • The native terms for things like native vocabulary or borrowings from Sanskrit doesn't seem all that relevant to a phonology section.
  • "Romanization" belongs under "Writing system", not in the phonology section.
  • "Regional phonological variations", which is a somewhat complicated way of saying "dialectal differences" should be moved to the dialect section. A very brief summary about some of the really major variations is relevant, but not in too much detail. And how on earth is the average reader supposed to understand terms like "debuccalization"? Be wary of jargon.
I believe this is enough to object at the moment. / Peter Isotalo 17:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
And whatever happened to the spoken sample of that poem that was recorded by ppm? It would be an excellent addition and a wonderful illustration of spoken Bengali.
Peter Isotalo 17:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Object Comprehensive, but extensive citation problems.
    • I'm pretty sure (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that you're generally advised not to cite other Wikipedia articles as sources (as you do with the second citation).
fixed--ppm 04:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • The first para of the History needs more citations.
done--ppm 08:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
    • three (sometimes four) periods What's the fourth?
reference to 4th removed.--ppm 04:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Wikilink first instance of: proto-pronouns, verb inflections, elision, Pali
    • In a separate event, in May, 1961, 11 people were killed in police firing in Silchar in southern Assam protesting legislation making the use of Assamese language compulsory in the state. Awkward sentence. Try: "In a separate event in May 1961, police in Silchar, India killed eleven people who were protesting legislation that mandated the use of the Assamese language."
done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 09:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • First para of Classification needs citations.
    • Bengali is native to the region of eastern South Asia known as Bengal, which comprises Bangladesh and the Indian state of West Bengal. This sentence is probably important enough to merit its placement in the lead.
done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 09:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Last para of Spoken and literary variants needs citations.
Done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Last para of Dialects needs citations.
Done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Dialectical differences in Bengali manifest themselves in three forms: standardized dialect vs. regional dialect, literary language vs. colloquial language and lexical (vocabulary) variations. This seems like a topic sentence of this section, but I see no discussion of literary vs. colloquial and lexical variations.
cleaned up--ppm 08:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Writing system needs many more citations.
provided--ppm 08:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Romanization section needs many more citations.
Done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Intonation section needs more citations. In fact, from here on, the article is generally sparse in citations, with whole paragraphs going without.
citations for intonation given--ppm 07:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • The graph in vocabulary needs a caption.
done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 09:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Gzkn 01:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Striking out my object until I can take another look at the article. Gzkn 02:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
  • SupportComment There is an issue where Bangla is second or third in India. I've quoted some sources, both papers and official websites in India in the talk page that suggest Telugu is 2nd. Idleguy 08:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Reply: Since we have contradicting references, I think best is to stick to census data. Since 2001 census data is not available yet, we should use 1991 data. And we can mention it in this way,"...according to 1991 census of India, Bengali is the second most widely spoken language in the country...". Please comment. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 09:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Since the census is produced by Indian government and this is from the official news outlet of Indian govt. and is a recent writeup, shouldn't that be taken as the latest one on this? Idleguy 16:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Don't know the details of this, but it is always better to depend on actual numbers than a website. The websites can sometimes be misleading (here is an example). I think it will be the best to dig up 2001 census data if possible. As for the rank, how about rephrasing it as "ranked between 2nd and 3rd" or "variously ranked 2nd (ref) or 3rd (ref)"? --Ragib 20:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Just checked the Census of India site and even they have not updated the 2001 figures and only quote the 1991 census for the language demographics which still puts Bengali at #2. I think it's best to follow what Ragib has suggested, because the more i try to get data, the more conflicting it is. Idleguy 05:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I can't seem to hit the site that Idleguy has provided. Census figure are official so we should poject it as a primary figure, but also at the same time cite the latest official publications too. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
The text has been changed as suggested by Ragib, and agreed upon by others. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:18, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Support : Article has evolved a lot, and is now perfect to be a featured one. --Ragib 20:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
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