Talk:Fascism in New Zealand

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Far-right politics, defined here as organised advocacy of fascist, neo-Nazi, white supremacist, or anti-Semitic views, has been present in New Zealand to a limited extent. The strength of the far right in New Zealand has been variable, and the movement has never gained much support from mainstream groups.

This is a poor definition for the NZ context because most far-right politics in New Zealand are related to radicalised Maori nationalism, as neo-Nazism, fascism and paranoia about the Jews have been almost non-exist in NZ outside of a few small groups.

[edit] Big changes - Moved to new title: Fascism in New Zealand

OK, the reason for these changes:

The right-left spectrum is best understood an economic spectrum ranging from freemarket policies on the right to collectivist/distributist policies on the left. Describing fascism as "far right" is inaccurate, as the social and economic policies and fascism tend more towards the left than the right.

It would be more accurate to call it for what it is, "National Socialism", but I'm not going to do that out of respect for socialist in general. "Far right" would be better suited to the doctrines of libertarianism. There is no need to label this article "far right" when it is more accurate and particular, and less controversial, to label it "fascism", for the sake of political neutrality.

If I may quote you Vardion;

"If anyone is able to gather and present evidence of my political beliefs from my edits, I will have failed to achieve my goal of neutrality."

What's your reference for these assertions? Fascism is conventionally considered a far-right movemement. -Will Beback 00:47, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Just my own experience... I dare say most New Zealanders wouldn't be familiar with the term "far right", and would be quicker to call white supremacy and neo-Nazism "fascist" rather than "far right". While the right-wing/left-wing is said to have originated between conservatives and revolutionaries in France, in New Zealand today they are very much understood as economic terms.

I can't think of any sources or authorities that I can refer to for these statements, but the fact of the matter is that the term "right wing" is ambigous, and for the sake of this article the term "fascist" would be less ambiguous and more accurate.-User:A.J.Chesswas 13:44, 27 June 2006 (NZT)

"More accurate" is a good reason, but is it correct? Is every individual, group, and movement listed here fascist? White supremacists are not necessarily fascist. -Will Beback 03:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0508/S00727.htm

The above url will ake you to a statement by our Minister of Economic Development about the opposition leader being supported by a group he calls the "far right" and "extreme right". He was commenting on the findings that were published in the following article in NZ's major Sunday paper:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0508/S00226.htm

It is clear that in New Zealand when we refer to the "far right", "extreme right" or "hard right" we are referring to libertarians or extreme capitalists. Note the references to "tax cuts", "overseas investment", "business roundtable", "ACT Party". It is also interesting to note the commitment of both the leader of the Businss Roundtable and of the opposition leader to a race relations policy that sees all New Zealanders, Maori and Pakeha, as "one people".

I think Vardion needs to be a little more clear about the topic he wishes to discuss in this article. Perhaps "White Supermacism in NZ" would be more appropriate and able to accommodate fascism. Or if we also want to look at Maori nationalism then it could be "Racialist Politics in New Zealand". I'm just not keen on calling it "Far Right", as it is something of a pointscoring opportunity for the left.-A.J.Chesswas 16:41, 27 June 2006 (NZT)

Scoop calls the National Front "extreme right wing"[1] and "far right"[2]. Every political tendency has extremists - I don't think that calling groups like the NF "far right" is meant to reflect on more moderate groups, and economics is not the only input into the equation. I don't mind leaving the article where you moved it, at Fascism in New Zealand, but I'm not sure that it's the best title. -Will Beback 08:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting references. I note that the first is'n't a direct application of the term - "has been accused of being an extreme right wing bunch". The second reference quotes Kevin List who is barely known outside of Scoop and Radio Active, both media forms aimed at a student/alternative (dare I say) left wing consumers. One look at the National Front's policies[3] though make it clear they prefer socialism to capitalism. I'm sure they taught me socialism was left-wing and capitalism right-wing at university. I'll be interested to see what Vardion has to say when he gets back from wherever he is.-A.J.Chesswas 22:00, 27 June 2006 (NZT)

[edit] Reference Book.

There is an Interesting book "National Socialism In Australia and New Zealand" that my school library used to have, published in the late 1970s I believe. If somebody has a copy it would be a good reference for this article. - SimonLyall 10:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)