Talk:Families Need Fathers

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[edit] Too many extern links

Apparently the author of this article didn't realize that Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not merely a collection of extern links. This article has way too many! I suggest that someone interested in this subject go through and determine which links are useful and which are not. Please remove the less relevant ones and get the lists down to manageable sizes.

I know that in my last edit, I placed some lists with internal links in the external links section. I know, but I couldn't take the time to sort out the extern from internal links. Hopefully, someone can improve this article real soon. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:11, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)

Apparently the author of the above isn't aware that there are many pages in Wikipedia that are solely lists of links and that encylopedias generally are full of lists of all sorts of things, which makes them useful as research tools in their own right - saving people the trouble of wading through irrelevancies returned by search engines.

All the links that I've placed on the FNF article page are, I believe, relevant research about children in broken homes and related themes, intended to be useful to people who face family break up - remember that a third of marriages in the UK end in divorce.

There is no other central repository with such a list that I am aware of on the Internet. If there is, then please someone put in a link to it and then maybe some of the links on the FNF article page will become redundant. That list, incidentally, is not nearly complete, so I'm afraid I'm planning to add more links, not take any away. It might be useful to move the links to a list of family separation research articles in due course. I'm unclear by what criteria the author above adjudges there to be too many links. As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier, provided the description of the link is adequate and not misleading.

Many, if not most, wikipedia pages carry external links, and wikipedia even publishes as one of its metrics the total number of external links in the encyclopedia. So I can hardly believe that lists of links to relevant web sites is unwikipedian, in fact the opposite. Matt Stan 20:30, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

First off, Matt, thanks for responding. Second, I welcome responses to everything I state, but don't put the comments in-line with mine. It is not generally done and make it hard to follow the flow of posts. That said, here is the comment you made to my first paragraph, moved here:

cf List of news web sites. this criticism should be placed there is it is worth making. Matt Stan 20:30, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I can't understand what point you were trying to make here. The link you give points to a list of news websites with internal and external links.

Now, about your objections:

1. If you look at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not #12, you'll see that Wikipedia articles should not be just a bunch of external links. This article gives very little information on the stated topic, an orginization called "Families Need Fathers" and gives numerous links to many web sites which deal with broken homes in general, not the main topic of the article.
2. Yes, I am aware that Wikipedia has many lists and this is a Good Thing. In fact, I've started many of them. However, this article is not a list; it is supposed to be about the charity "Families Need Fathers." Also, most of the lists in Wikipedia are lists of internal links not external ones. A list with a bunch of external links would be a violation of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not #12, what this article, in its current state, comes close to violating.
3. The UK statistic you mention is tragic, but Wikipedia is not a UK encyclopedia. It is not a US or Canadian encyclopedia either. It is web-based and accessible world-wide. What may be important in one locale may not be in another. Broken homes is a viable topic for an article. If there isn't one, start one and put your links there. Just make sure they are relevant.
4. Wikipedia should not be a central repository of external links. External links are a good thing, when used judiciously (see below). Your links would probably be fine for articles where they are topical. For this article, they are just clutter.
5. Yes, many articles in Wikipedia have external links and, IMHO, this is a good thing. In fact, having external links is preferable to just internal ones. But the links should be relevant. For this article, for example, the link to the "Families Need Fathers" official web site and maybe a news article or two on the organization should be sufficient. If you are trying to prove that families really do need fathers by providing numerous links to sites which prove the point, Wikipedia is not the place to do it. Doing so violates Wikipedia's NPOV policy.

We just had a vote on homeschooling to get rid of many of the extern links (there were links to home schooling organizations in many states in the US). Those links were on home schooling, the topic of the article and were judged too superfluous and removed. You say, "As far as I am concerned, the more the merrier" when it comes to links. I agree, as long as they are relevant. Please put your links in relevant articles instead of slapping them in here where they are only marginally relevant.

If you don't agree with me and think you should be able to post as many external links as you like, you can take this up at the Village Pump; many experiened Wikipedians frequent the page and can give you their insight. You might even want to direct them to this talk page. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:51, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

Well, I still think this article has too many links with too little information on the topic of the article, Families Need Fathers. Still, it looks a little better than it did (it's more organized now). To those who "own" this article, please move the links to more relevant articles. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:57, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Link removed

• Guardian statistics

This link isn't aptly named and takes you to an article urging that Margaret Hodge should resign. She was replaced at the General Election in 2005. Matt Stan 18:42, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Portal needed

This article ranges all over the place and covers numerous related but different issues arising in any number of jurisdictions. I think it would greatly benefit from creation of a Portal and urge you please to vote in favour on page Wikipedia:Portal/Proposals#Family_Law - - Kittybrewster 22:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)