Talk:Falun Gong/Comments/Archive

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• I would note the quality of this page as unstable and BIASED therefore i would give it a 2 from a total of 5. As I see it, this page is written by only two groups, Chinese Communist Party members who have a direct interest (power, money, greed) to hide/obfuscate the details and the motives behind the Persecution of Falun Gong and Falun Gong practitioners who, since are not paid, I guess, would know the actual facts about Falun Gong since they are actually doing it daily. --HappyInGeneral 13:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

• And who are these CCP members who have a 'direct interest' in this matter, HiG? Does your bias know no bounds? Jsw663 22:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• Thank you for raising this question. Please hear my say, which I agree is a speculation, but a very logical one. CCP has the largest propaganda machine on this planet, this is a fact. When you search for Falun Gong on Google [1], this article of Wikipedia comes up, this is a fact. CCP has banned Falun Gong and has a heavy propaganda inside China and outside as well where it can. Now this make me think that it is sure to have CCP propaganda members on the Wikipages, although they will not tell me nor tell you. But then again if they would tell us at some point there might be fines, going to jail on selling state secrets, etc..., in short if they are among us they are not encouraged to tell us. Since I don't know who they are I'm not accusing any individual of this, but this does not impede me to think and be quite certain that there are many, perhaps all in the row of Falun Gong critics. Why would the CCP do this? Well read this [2] and allow to highlight the following:

1) doing so paints the oppressor in a rosy light, as if it were stomping out society’s bad elements; if people knew the truth about what Falun Gong is they would be outraged at the communist regime’s actions

2) by shifting attention to Falun Gong’s beliefs, the spotlight is removed from the practices of China’s regime, which include the brutal torture and even murder of Falun Gong’s followers;

3) by painting Falun Gong as weird, cultish, or different from you and me, it hopes to scare people away from the issue, make things seem terribly messy, and dull the listener’s humanity, as it were.

In short, the attempt is to undermine sympathy and support for Falun Gong, to alienate the group, and to justify what is in essence simply another attempt by the Chinese leadership to exercise totalitarian control.

Also please for further questions try to contact me directly and we can sort this out, otherwise this page might get big as this one got [3], in an attempt to try to confuse things? I'm not sure so I'm not going to hold that against you. --HappyInGeneral 14:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

By all means, I don't believe that every Falun Gong critic is a CCP agent. That's not possible. I agree that there might be an unknown number of these people among the editors, and we don't know who they are or their connections, but the majority of critics probably belongs to either of these groups: 1) people who have read Dafa and think it's not good, no matter what their reasons are; 2) people who've formed their opinion after being deeply influenced by the propaganda in Mainland China. ---Olaf Stephanos 15:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Fact: there are no statistics to support that the CCP has the largest propaganda machine on this planet. I would have thought the USA had the biggest + most effective one.

Fact: Chinese inside mainland China cannot access the Wiki page on Falun Gong.

Fact: The CCP or CPC or whatever you call it is having a very hard time censoring the internet.

Combining facts 2 and 3, we ask why the CCP would waste its resources to change opinions for a page they have already blocked. That is a waste of resources seen as scarce to them already.

Fact: It doesn't take a CCP member to be critical of Falun Gong.

Fact: It doesn't take a member with CCP sympathies or be 'brainwashed' to be critical of Falun Gong. HiG, you yourself said on Wiki that Li Hongzhi predicted the downfall of the CCP in 2005, yet this never happened - is this a critique of Li Hongzhi?

Fact: Not everyone who reads the Falun Dafa necessarily thinks that everything about it is bad.

Now for my opinion. A lot of 'independent' sources quoted by pro-FGers are notably pro-FG. If I were to use your earlier logic, should I speculate that they must have been brainwashed by Falun Gong propaganda, were paid agents of FG or come up with speculative-paranoid conspiracy theories? Most FG critics here have a very negative opinion of the CCP in case you haven't noticed, strongly objecting to their authoritarian style. Most FG critics also don't think that FG is 100% or 99% bad, even if FGers think the CCP is 99-100% bad. However, many of those viewing FG being put into practice will also notice it shares many characteristics with other cults in that it alters 'mainstream cults' (= religions) teachings for its own benefit - for the benefit of one person who has absolute, unquestioning authority. Since most FG critics are also CCP critics BECAUSE both share the characteristic of unquestioning authority, they are critical of BOTH. This is why your opinion that there 'must be' many CCP-brainwashed persons or CCP agents out there is simply unfounded. If Wikipedia were a representative sample, then you should stop alienating those who are critical of FG by labelling them as Communist agents or whatever, because you may actually find more support by 1. NOT imposing your opinion on others; 2. not accuse everyone of being 100% evil (because if the CCP is 100% evil, then their agents must be 100% evil...) and 3. spend your time sharing the political anti-CCP beliefs that the self-claimed apolitical Falun Gong does. Jsw663 19:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your input Jsw, this way things presented here are certainly not one sided. Now with the 2 theories (POV) present on the table the reader can decide for himself :) And I find that rather comforting :) --HappyInGeneral 11:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

And quite clearly I am not representing the anti-FG (pro-CCP) view. Hope you noticed that. Jsw663 13:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

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Currently on-going is an edit war between NPOV and FLG editors. Colipon+(T) 03:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

That is your POV. My POV is that I welcome any truly NPOV well sourced edits which considers the whole context. --HappyInGeneral 14:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The edit war is between three camps; anti-FG, pro-FG and third-party. It is hard to find anyone NPOV, because once they know enough about the subject, there is no such thing as a neutral stance in this controversial matter. Jsw663 19:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)