Talk:False friend

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You have new messages (last change).

Maybe not a true false friend, but the 'oldtimer' bit has kept me thinking.
Like in German, Oldtimer refers to a car, not an old person. Likewise we have some odd words in the Dutch language that sounds like of English origin, but really aren't:

  • Smoking (tuxido, dinner jacket)
  • Video-recorder (VCR)
  • Songtekst (lyrics)
  • Playback (lip-syncing)

There may be more ... --Marc NL 18:58, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

For the record, video recorder is fine in British English at least. Flapdragon 13:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Isn't VCR an abbreviation of Video Cassette Recorder, anyway, and isn't playback a loanword from showbiz lingo? Cf. playback singer. 惑乱 分からん 00:04, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi!

There is another german/englisch false friend: die.

sounds like "to die" but it means "The" in the female case. (--> not "sounds like", i mean "looks like", fux, 31.05.03)

(You also mean gender, not case; case would be nominative or accusative. And of course, it's plural too. -- John Owens 09:14 31 May 2003 (UTC))
As i say: my englisch is not very good. i forgot the word "gender", so i had to help me otherwise. more important is, you know what i mean. (fux)

Der (Mann) - The (Man) --> male
Die (Frau) - The (Woman) --> female
Das (Auto) - The (Car) --> thing

Greetings from the german wikipedia ( http://de.wikipedia.org )!

-- Fux 217.225.122.228 08:47 29 May 2003 (UTC)

As I recall, the German "die" is /di:/, while the English "die" is /daI/. So it's not really correct to say that one sounds like the other. — Paul A 09:16 29 May 2003 (UTC)

Well the Spanish "once" sounds nothing like the English "once", and that's on there... -- Jlk7e

Think Paul is correcting Fux's mistake: "sounds like "to die"." (2nd line) And not to deny that it's a false friend. --Menchi 09:30 29 May 2003 (UTC)
It's not really a false friend, though - it's a totally different part of speech and the two words are very unlikely to be confused (as, admittedly, are many of the other examples in the article). Deb 21:20 29 May 2003 (UTC)
My mistake was, that i used the term "sounds" but i ment the same writing. (it was my poor englisch ;)). But the words "murder" and (german) "Mörder" sounds exactly, but "murder" means "Mord" (in englisch: "murderer")
I can remember as i was a Kid, the movie "Stirb langsam" ("Die hard" with Bruce Willis) was in tv and i haven't had any english lessons before, so i was really confused of the subtitle of this movie "die hard" (I: "the hard???"). "Die" is really a false friend. :O)
Today i have on the german "False friends" page ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsche_Freunde ) added some new false friends like engl. "billion" - looks like (ger) "Billion" - but means (ger) "Milliarde" and the same to "trillion" - looks like "Trillion" - means (ger) "Billion" --fux (30.05.03)
added. (fux, 02.06.03)

In addition to a common etymological origin, another cause of false friends can be sheer coincidence, like the Latin is, the Chinese you... -- Isn't this already covered by the False Cognates section? Words with no etymological relation, but which are spelled/sound the same. -- Wapcaplet 11:27 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

i don't think so: every word - if spelled or written - that can be misunderstood in this way (= same writing/sound) is a false friend. (fux, 02.06.03)
You're right. Their orgin is classified as false cognates on this page now. --Menchi 11:50 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Independent origin and false cognates

Isn't the independent origin what caused false cognate? Currently the sentence "In certain cases, false friends were created separately in the two languages" is listed under the heading "cognate." --Menchi 11:50 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I just looked thru the revision history, and found that the above sentence was originally listed under "false cognate," until last year, when Uri Yanover reoraganized it in a minor edit.
But Uri is not a Wikipedian anymore, so I couldn't ask him about it. What are your thoughts on where the sentence is better placed? --Menchi 03:50 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)
It's been almost 20 days, and nobody responded, so I have moved. Feel free to move back with an explanation. --Menchi 03:11 23 Jun 2003 (UTC)

The table really should be split into two tables, one for friends of identical/similar pronunciation (that would be the more interesting one, IMO) and one for identical/similar spelling (of which there are many more cases, once you start to look for them.) For example, the German Rat is pronounced more like rot, and die is pronounced dee, not like the English verb die. Mkweise 03:12 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Another false friend is from Tabasaran, a Daghestanian language of the Caucasus. The word is /jiR/ (pronounced as English year but with an uvular fricative at the end); it sounds like year, but really means day. thefamouseccles 05:29 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Our friend 65.89.202.98 (I so hate contributions where people can't be bothered to give themselves some kind of name) has removed several examples of false friends, two of which were perfectly good examples in English and in German: dick and wanken. I have re-entered them with comments to show that they were there in a totally correct context. If, however, s/he thinks anything is to be gained by bowdlerizing a language they couldn't be more wrong. We have to live with a language as it is, rather than being comfortable only with the words we like. Dieter Simon 23:10, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)

--

Some other suggestions: Chinese (I don't know which) 'Gai' -- sounds like 'guy', means 'chicken' Japanese 'Hai' sounds like 'Hi' (hello), means no (sort of). Japanese 'Ile' or 'Iie' (depending on translit), sounds like 'Yeah', means. 'No' 'Weiner' in German/Austrian, of course, does not mean 'hot dog' or anything of similar shape by any means. I once saw a site for a live-action vampire role-playing game troupe in Vienna that went by the name 'Weiner Blut' which sounds all fine in German, but when read by a native English speaker sounds like something much more painful.

Huhhh, late response, but Japanese "Hai" doesn't mean "No!", it means "Yes!", it's just that the Japanese respond "Yes!" to a negative query, instead of "No!"

Dieter, if a name were really considered a requirement, WIki wouldn't allow people to edit without logging in with one, would it?

No, my main objection was really to the removal of the German words "dick" - "fat or thick" and "wanken" - "to yield, to sway, to waver, to falter" (and quite a few more synonyms), both words are perfectly legit. Why they were ever taken out I do not know! All I meant was they should have the courage of their conviction so I can talk to them person to person about the removal of the words. There was no offence intended on my part. --Dieter Simon 19:19, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Dictionary intro

The original meaning of false friend is someone who appears to be a friend, but is actually an enemy. The phrase "false friend" is an old phrase. It is found in William Shakespeare's Richard III, act III scene i.

In it, Richard III tells Prince Edward:

Those uncles which you want were dangerous;
Your grace attended to their sugar'd words,
But look'd not on the poison of their hearts :
God keep you from them, and from such false friends!

To which Prince Edward replies:

God keep me from false friends! but they were none.

From this comes the use of the term false friends to describe pairs of words in two languages...

Removed: since this is an encyclopedia, we are interested in things, not words for things. Martin 20:56, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I reckon this should be put back somewhere in the article, just not at the top. The derivation of a term is surely encyclopedic. --Phil 08:31, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)
Well, if this article was instead titled false cognate (a synonym), would you still consider the derivation of false friend relevant? I think that's a good test for when we're including etymology for good encyclopedic reasons, and when we're including it just because we happen to know it. Personally, I'd say no, but perhaps you disagree? Martin 22:33, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Letters

Does people really talk about "false friends" when it comes to letters?

I changed the example of Russian "H", because I believe it was wrong, I replaced it with the greek "P" example, instead, though I am not completely sure if it's correct...
As a matter of fact, it's not. Roman "P" is related to Greek "pi" - when this took its modern form 'rho' was modified to keep it distinct, thus: "R". You can see the older forms at Latin alphabet.
While this can certainly be confusing, I'm also dubious of calling letters "false friends". --Damezi 02:07, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Definition

"False friends are pairs of words in two languages or letters in two alphabets that look or sound similar but stem from unrelated sources and differ in meaning. False cognates, by contrast, share a common root but have come to have different meanings."

Not regarding the strange information about "letters", I believe this is wrong. False friends doesn't have to come from unrelated sources, they might just as well have come from the same source originally. Also, the statement about "false cognates" is completely wrong. False cognates shares different roots, but have come to have similar meanings and appearance. I rephrase this.(Haakan)

Hi,

The words False Friends means a person who pretends to be real friends but are in reality enemies! A False Friend will not invite you over his house or to his parties because he in reality, hates you.

A False Friend is someone who wants to take advantage of you, Exploit you and use you for a purpose.

If you get sick and wind up in the Hospital they will not visit you cause they do not care.

They do not want to do favors for you.

Your real friends invite you over their house or apartment. They invite you to parties and weddings. They want you to meet their relatives.

False Friends tell you lies! Real Friends are truthful!

False Friends will try to manipulate you!

Supercool Dude

[edit] Homonym

Under the heading Homonym see the following: "For example, the Latin is, the Chinese you, and the German Rat (= council) when compared to the respective English words". Please add the meanings of Latin is and Chinese you as you have done with the German Rat. Dieter Simon 8 July 2005 22:30 (UTC)

I wanted to, but they are understandably hard to Google for. :) I have replaced them with another Chinese example. – Smyth\talk 8 July 2005 22:52 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Hi,

I don't think that "Embarazado" should be merged into this article. I just added two large paragraphs of info to that article, so integrating it into this one would clutter it up and change the subject dramatically. It would also make it harder for people to find information on the word embarazado. So, I'm removing the tag as there appears to be no interest in the subject. If you disagree, feel free to restore it.

Thanks,

Primetime 06:28, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just pairs?

"pairs of words in two languages" There are some false friends going across more than just two languages. Leer: English - a lusty stare, Spanish - to read, German - empty.Schizombie 21:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

For simple words, there probably are examples of words going across tens or more of different languages, I can come up with i (English:I, Swedish:Inside, Danish:You(plur,nom case)/inside), be (English:be, Swedish:Pray) and de (Swedish:They, Dutch:The, Chinese:Of/'s, Spanish:Of, French:Of, Japanese:"By means of") just from the top of my head. If I looked through word lists, I could probably find lots of languages with different meanings for simple words like these... 惑乱 分からん 08:58, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect translations

Changed the incorrect English translation ("cool") of Swedish rolig to "funny".

[edit] Bilingual dictionaries

Even compilers of bilingual dictionaries are sometimes fooled by false friends, particularly when they are cognates. For example, the Spanish embarazada at first glance looks like "embarrassed," but actually means "pregnant."

There seems to be an implication here (perhaps unintentional) that the word embarazada has been translated in a bilingual dictionary as "embarrassed" because it looked as if it should mean that. Can we have a reference? If that wasn't meant as a specific example, can we have a specific example? Thanks. Flapdragon 13:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Embarazado/a again

Contributors to this article may be interested to know that the article on Embarazada (the Spanish for "pregnant" mentioned in this article) is currently up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Embarazada. Flapdragon 13:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese -> Chinese "Heavy Bleeding" in Examples

The phrase that the Japanese use for a big sale can be understood properly as a HK cantonese slang. I have no clue whether the term remains lost in translation if a Mandarin speaker reads it though. Calyth 11:02, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think 大出血 really qualifies as a false friend between Chinese and Japanese. It's not only understandable but is considered a normal usage for "heavy bleeding" in *both* languages (Just look at the first page of Google Japan results --- about half are actually medical advice pages) It's just that in Japanese, it's been extended by metaphor to mean a sale (e.g. the shop owner is "bleeding" away his profits by selling at such low prices), similar to how "blow out" is used in English (when its original meaning is about explosions). cab 14:51, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Then please delete it or modify it if you're sure on that becuase it seems strange to me too. grendelsmother 05:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chevrolet "No va"

Please keep the legend about the Chevy Nova not going well on Spanish-speaking markets away from this article. There is not even a grain of truth in it, and as nova is not really an English word, I don't even see where this pair would qualify as false friends according to the definition given in the article even if the misunderstanding had taken place. See Chevrolet Nova#The urban legend for details. --Daniel Bunčić 08:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Majority of Examples section really neccesary?

Is it really relevant to the article for that paragraph about a potential embarassing situation a native Swedish speaker could come across? It's all conjecture, and I'm sure if we went through every language we could come up with a hundred similar situations, so shouldn't we keep it limited to realistic situations, or situations that have actually happened? I can't imagine a Swede ever saying "I like your cock", since that's not even grammatically correct in Swedish. Same for the 'Whore Soldiers' 'Mercenaries' thing. I mean, it reads like the dude came up with it off the head top. At the end, "Actually, they're quite similar" sounds totally unencylopedic. I don't want to delete it since I'm not familiar with the article, but I think the reader gets the point after the first two examples. Flannel 22:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The whole is example section is tritely written in my view, it should stick to a concise "word(french) = word(english)" format, for example. "chef" below is a good example, it's used in lots of European languages to mean "boss", in Czech and Slovak for example "šef". grendelsmother 05:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Chef" in German means "boss"

Maybe you'll like to add these false friends: The German word "Chef" means "boss", not "chef". -- Irene1949 01:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish

I requested a list of Spanish/English false friends. I can contribute to this article, but can someone else start it please. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.244.165.71 (talk) 23:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Fish and chips example is not helpful

The main example of a false friend, the fish and chips example really is a very poor one, it reads:

"For example, in the US the common British fish and chips is generally taken to mean something very different than it is in Britain (namely fish and potato chips, which are known in Britain as crisps) unless the listener is +aware of the difference."

In just about every country I have ever been to (including the US), "Fish and Chips" over-rides all cultural and language barriers to become the British fish and chips. The only difference I have ever found is in the type of fish never in the type of chips.

In fact I would go as far as saying that "fish and chips" is an example of a true-friend as far as language is concerned as opposed to a false one. Anyone in the mood to think up an example that actually works? Maybe just "chips" would be a lot better an example since that one really would be a false-friend.

Lawrie 17:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Table (verb) is probably the best. JackLumber. 20:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
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