Talk:Faith of the Fallen

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This article was nominated for deletion on 21 February 2007. The result of the discussion was Speedy Keep.

[edit] Tone and content

The problems of tone and content are in this article as the other individual SoT pages. Please see the Talk:Stone of Tears page for more info. NeoFreak 14:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Themes

So I noticed that some of the information in the themes section had been deleted, so I replaced it because it seemed fairly worthwhile. However, even though I think a themes section is a great addition to this novel, I'm not entirely sure we should keep it. Despite however obvious (or subtle) any of the novel's themes may be, I think for us editors to make judgments about it would fall under the category of original research, which as we all know isn't allowed.

So basically, unless we can find some references for the section, even though some of the themes of the novel may be obvious, I think we might have to temporarily delete the section. What does everyone else think? - Runch 19:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, my problem with what you reverted is speculative opinion. While one could see similarities between the two books, one could also make many such claims of several books. What was placed there was more plot and book specific. It spoke to the theme of the book and its power. Personally I would have it reverted. Maybe I could enhance it, but I do think making comparisons is not NPOV--Mystar 14:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

My point is that it could all be considered speculative opinion, even the obvious stuff about Richard and the Spirit statue. Since the only reference we could cite is Faith of the Fallen itself, I think any observations made from the book are original research. So personally I don't think we should include any of it. I'm just waiting to see if anyone else has any good arguments either for or against. - Runch 14:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's a review that could be potentially mined for themes, or at least ideas regarding the book. Admittedly it is pretty negative, but it's still a resource. 'Taint got a lot in it, but it does justify the mirroring of "The Fountainhead". http://www.flakmag.com/misc/worst.html WLU 15:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Come on now, that's not nice. Posting that link is going to rub Mystar the wrong way and you know it. Kinda innappropriate as it looks like you're purposely trying to egg him on. I took a look at the article, and it has no place here. I have no problem seeing positive and negative reviews, as some people like the book, and some people don't. But to post a completely negative and derogatory article is too much. Merrit 17:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm expecting people to cite gushing reviews of the book and its themes, and as much as a completely negative article is unbalanced, so is a completely positive one. The review does acknowledge TG's merits as a writer, it is not completely negative and derogatory. It also addresses in an official venue some of the complaints that TG's readers have about his books - overly political, excessive sexual violence, awkward wording. Note I didn't put it in the article, I put it in the talk page as an option for inclusion. Whether it is used or not is up to the regular contributors. WLU 18:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, implicit in what I said was that we need reliable sources, which this obviously isn't. - Runch 18:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So WLU you have a problem with someone anyone liking the book or the series and you are all about doing what ever it takes to slander the book and series. As we have seen in your posts to date. Well the thing I think we all can get a clear picture here is that no matter what WLU has no knowledge of the content of the books and will only cite scathing negative reviews...as she has show us. I have no problem with critical reviews. I do however have a problem with biased left wing babble from bloggers who are afraid that someone is going to read Goodkind and like it. SO they go ten miles in demeaning the guy. Fact is 9 out of 10 people cite FOTF as the #1 book of the series. The spiritual and psychological aspects of that book have helped people reach a new level of understanding and have helped people all over the world. There is currently underway a book about this very phenomenon. Letters by the hundreds are being read and sorted for inclusion. The fact that a few people find the book uninviting is their problem. But they do not get to voice opinion and crap. NPOV is the rule and as Runch has stated reliable sources only please --Mystar 00:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually WLU... in looking at this thing. You can't even stand Goodkind or any of his works. You've stated that implicitly and over again... so why is it that you allot it to rule your life? The fact that you hate Goodkind's works seems to drive you into finding any ting to smear them. This seems to be that you cannot be biased in any sense of the word. You offer a deal to me and renege on it not keeping your own words. Why is it that you even care what a Goodkind fan thinks? I'm really curious. Why is it that you feel the weight of disproving anything Good of Goodkind or his books? It is really only a thinly veiled and sarcastic attack on Terry. I'm really interisted Mystar 00:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Um... yeah. I was looking at this page and I believe that the lines

"It is also evident in Richard's indomitable spirit and will..."

and

"No matter the challenge, he never sacrifices his beliefs or his dignity to those who would strip him of it."

should be struck from the page on Faith of the Fallen. These lines, I think, constitute opinion and are not really even a theme of the novel. I hesitate to do anything now, though, considering the hostilities that seem to divide the Sword of Truth pages. Snowbeat 21:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)