Image talk:European age of male erotic emancipatio.jpg

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[edit] Get Rid of the Pederasty Label

The age of consent that is the subject of this map has absolutely NOTHING to do with pederasty, aka pedophilia. The age of consent laws apply to ALL men who engage in sexual relations with other men, regardless of age.

It is NOT pederasty when a 16-year old man engages in sexual behaviour with another 16-year old man. And it is certainly not pederasty for a 65-year old man to engage in sexual activity with another 65-year old.

Likewise, it is JUST AS ILLEGAL for a 16-year old to engage in sexual relations with a 15-year old (of either sex or any sexual orientation) as it is for a 66-year old to do it.

Get the mind off the homophobic idea that gay men are pedophiles and fix this image. In the meantime, I am deleting it from all of the articles in which it appears as an intentional libel against gay men. 207.200.116.5 05:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this map is factually incorrect and should not be used, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:European_age_of_male_erotic_emancipatio.jpg -- 790 14:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

It is factually correct as per the Age of consent article, unless you can show that the laws have changed. Haiduc 19:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You are probably right, it seems that I have been misinterpreting the concept of "age of consent". -- 790 22:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Comments

Great image and useful, but I have two questions. Firstly, the title is unclear (not to mention unwieldly and incomplete!) — it implies the legal age of consent for males, but the heading on the image itself suggests the age of consent for males engaging in homosexual acts.

Second, "lawful pederastic relationships" is misleading, as that is not what the laws are legislating. Is a 17-year-old in ireland in a "lawful pederastic relationship" with a 19 year old? How about "homosexual male age of consent" instead? I'm guessing you wanted to avoid complications like in Switzerland where a 15yo with a 17yo is legal but a 15yo with a 29yo is not? Anyway, it would be good to have an explanation on the image page of how a single age was arrived at when the laws are complex. Cheers ntennis 02:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the questions above. "Pederastic relationship" is ambiguous. It'd be helpful to have the source for the underlying data. This is currently unsourced so far as I can tell - I didn't find anything on the Commons page either.[1] -Will Beback 09:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Re q.1, yes, this is only valid for males in homosexual acts with an older man. Source for data is mostly the Age of Consent article. Ages were arrived at by choosing that which was not ambiguous - Switzerland has 16, not 15. If you are aware of errors, let me know please. As for the title, I am not averse to changing it if it is seen to be misleading - that was not my intention, simply to use it the pederasty in the modern world article, which is why it was referenced that way. I specifically avoided something like "Pederastic age of consent" just so as to avoid giving the wrong impression. As it is I see it as accurate and neutrally worded. Haiduc 12:08, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Is 12 really necessary on this map? I think that should be removed, as no countries according to the map have the age at 12.

The age of consent was 12 in Spain until recently, and in Britain and the US earlier in history. It is still an important legal threshold in some jurisdictions, e.g. for consensual sex between teenagers. I find it reasonable to include it even if there is currently no European country where 12 is the age of consent for adult/teenager sex.