Talk:Esteban

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Contents 1 Esteban & Segovia 2 Twisket's Opinion! 3 More criticism 4 Criticism section 5 History 6 Bias's 7 Segovia chronology? 8 This Article should be deleted... 9 Disambiguation page

[edit] Esteban & Segovia

I have discovered a tiny image subtitled: "Esteban of Phoenix, AZ & Segovia" : Here, someone should contact the page authors to inquire about getting a larger picture. This perhaps adds credibility to the fact that Esteban did at least meet Segovia. I dunno, I could care less. Esteban's guitars suck.

[edit] Twisket's Opinion!

This article should be completely rewritten or just deleted. God awful. Twisket 04:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More criticism

The entire "segovia years" section has nothing to back it up. I personally think that it's BS.

is this an add?

Estaban shares no musical similarity with Segovia and this is important to point out. Pepe Romeros page (a real maestro) and other classical guitarist need more positive entries... everyone head over to the real masters pages and improve them. Seriously, What is up with this page? All the external links even point to the guy's comercial sites.

That's all this guy is, a commercial. Many reviews I've read on music sites say he sucks on guitar, has no real skill. And of course, nobody recommends his line of guitars, they suck. Basically, if this guy was charging peers money for guitar lessons, theres nothing he wouldnt do for money. The criticism section should be longer, from what I've seen online. I am amazed the author found so many good reviews, Esteban must have payed to have them written.

Esteban may very well be a hack, a shill, or little more than a shameless opportunist - but (for better or worse) he has morphed into a C-list pop-culture icon. - Chadbryant 00:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

How can you "especially" not go to Costa Rica?

Segovia didnt give him his alias, Esteban is simply steven in Spanish. Segovia just called him that because Segovia was Spanish.

[edit] Criticism section

I don't see this as necessarily being accurate in terms of the external links being used here. People who are unhappy with a product are far more likely to complain about it long before complimenting it, therefore the information presented there would tend to be skewed or biased, if at all 100% accurate. --Gvsualan 14:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm troubled by this section:

The new Esteban American Legacy Guitar featured in TV infomercials demonstrates a good deal of improvement over earlier generations, and customer response has been generally more favorable.

The reference here is from estebanreviews.com, a site which offers prizes for the "Best Estaban Guitar Story," and has the following disclaimer for it's reviews:

The following testimonials have been selected from those submitted for their promotional, educational and inspirational value.... The reviews (and replies) appearing here are not presented as an "open" weblog, but rather a sampling of reviews that have been selected for presentation on this site. Submitting a review does not necessarily mean it will appear here.

If we visit a site not controled by Esteban, at best the American Legacy can be said to have mixed reviews. (e.g. http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Esteban/D_100_American_Legacy-1.html)

I suggest we start by deleting the above statement, and the less than encyclopedic waranty info. Frankly, the whole article seems to have POV and looks like a cut and paste job from an Esteban ad or "fansite." --MrFizyx 23:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[12.208.155.67] deleted the criticism section entirely. I've reverted and edited to keep only the info with an NPOV ref. --MrFizyx 23:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

I can barely understand the last sentence about him when he was 12, could someone rewrite that part.

Reply: I tried to fix it up and include what year he graduated in, 2006-1948 means he is 58 or 59, if he graduated when he was 19 i assumed that the year would be 1967 or 1968(1948+19). The sentence about esteban as a child playing baseball kinda bugs me too.

If he was born in 1948, that means he will turn/has turned 58 in 2006, meaning when the year started he was still 57. I know, math is tough, but I think you can do it!

My reading came to a halt right here:

"...after failing to study under one of his idols, Andrés Segovia."

That part sounds odd. I'm suggesting that more sentences be used. Here's a rewrite:

Esteban attended South Hills Catholic High School in Pittsburg. Following his 1967 graduation, Esteban applied for study with his idol Andrés Segovia. When master classes with Segovia failed to materialize, Esteban enrolled in Carnegie Mellon University.

[edit] Bias's

All biographies are opinions of a person, whether dead or alive. You can not completely free any article from opinions, and therefore bias'. when we decide whether someone is a legend or hero, or a great artist, or hopeless and not deserving of any of our attention, that is an opinion, and bias.

The actual article has a positive bias, and some of the responses have negative ones. This simply means that the person who wrote the article perceives Esteban as a hero, or an artist deserving of a positive biography on Wikipedia, and the people writing responses perceive Esteban negatively. Both the article and response are both bias.

These are perceptions i have formed through my study of history. You may agree, or disagree. Your bias is entirely up to you.

[edit] Segovia chronology?

In the "early years" section, it says he enrolled "at Carnegie Mellon in 1972, after failing to study under one of his idols, Andres Segovia."

Then, in the "Segovia years" section, it says they met in 1972 and "he was invited to his master classes in Spain." It goes on to imply that he immediately hauled ass to Spain to study. (After all, "his life was meaningless" without studying with Segovia, so why would he delay?)

So, where was he in 1972? Studying with El Maestro, or in college in western Pennsylvania? One of these statements has to be wrong. Did he graduate in '72?

And, he sold "solar systems" for Reynolds Aluminum? Like, planets and stuff? Meersman 02:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This Article should be deleted...

There is sufficient evidence (see internet and legal issues ) to suggest that the character "Esteban" is a fictitional person created to sell guitars on television commercials. If this is true then it is also possible that this article was placed in Wikipedia in the hopes of recovering commercial integrity.

 Take note, for example, the paragraph here on how to improve the performance of an Esteban guitar by sanding the bridge.  The guitars themselves, per multiple internet references ( listed in the article ), are of poor quality.
 I also echo the concerns of the other editors; there is no proof that Esteban studied under Segovia.  There is no mention of what he did at Carnegie Mellon, or whether he graduated from there.  There is no documentation of concerts or critical review of his performance. The most any reader of this article can feel comfortable with is the existance of an American who felt compelled to change his name to "Estaban", his wardrobe to that of Don Juan and Zoro, and his history to sound grand...in order to sell Chinese-made guitars for 150 dollars each on infomercials.  Without some solid evidence, what more are we to think?

As for bias and opinion...the two are separate. Encyclopedias present facts ONLY. "Your Opinion" is not allowed in this format. In addition, this article violates the Wikipedia Biographical requirement which requires citation for living persons. Respectfully submitted, J.S.

71.34.217.189 13:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

71.34.217.189 04:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation page

This should be a Disambiguation page...that way, more people can access it easier. I came to this page searching a different Esteban.Aznime 03:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)Aznime

I agree. So go ahead and create it. This article can be moved to either Stephen Paul (which now redirects here) or Esteban (guitarist) or similiar disambiguation. Then you can create the disambiguation page listing various people with this name. Gene Nygaard 14:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)