Talk:Ernest Hemingway/Archive 1
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The links from this page used to be Ernest Hemingway/subpages - they've now been moved to their own pages, but this isn't appropriate, because they are sections of a long essay rather than, for example, book or story titles. When I saw this had been done at first, I said I was going to move all the content from those pages onto this page, but I didn't realise how *long* they all were. I'm not sure sticking them all here is going to be very useful. As the entire text is available on the web (the link is given in the article, it's licensed under the GNU FDL), and does not in any case seem particularly encyclopaedic, how about just giving an external link to it, and deleting the text itself from the wikipedia? That will get rid of all these inappropriately named pages and avoid the false impression that we have a decent article about Hemingway. --Camembert
- Interesting idea. Yes, these pages give a false impression. I think I'll go download the pages so I have a backup. (I've been meaning to work on them for quite awhile now). --KQ
I agree with Camembert. Jeronimo 14:16 Oct 2, 2002 (UTC)
If Anonymous has found some GFDL material online, and we are maintaining a duplicate, I'd like to have a link to the original. Over the course of time, our version will fork away from theirs. --Ed Poor
- pointed out that the malaspina link is the same GFDL document, actually copied from Wikipedia (look carefully)
Sorry, looking carefully is not my strong suit. Which is the original source: the Wikipedia, with an echo at malaspina and elsewhere? Or is Malaspina the original, allowing us to copy from them under GFDL? --Ed Poor
I've gone to the Malaspina page, and at the bottom there is an almost illegible reference to the material being adapted from Wikipedia, but without any mention of GNU-FDL. Elsewhere, under Terms of Service, I found
- 16. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS TO CONTENT
- Members acknowledge that content, including but not limited to text, photographs, video, graphics, software, music, sound, or other material contained in either sponsor advertisements or emails presented to Member by BigMailBox.com or its advertisers (collectively referred to as "Content"), is protected under the laws of copyright, trademark, patent, unfair competition or other applicable laws. Therefore, you are only permitted to use this Content as expressly authorized by BigMailBox.com, Malaspina.com or the advertisers associated with the Malaspina.com service. Members may not copy, reproduce, distribute, or create derivative works from this Content without the express written authorization to do so by BigMailBox.com, Malaspina.com or the advertiser.
The other link is to a general german language freenet.de page which makes no direct mention of Hemingway. It's not helpful at all, and probably should be deleted.
The earliest entry in the history of this article is for May 12, 2001, and the article at that point includes a warning from Larry to the contributor about the GNU-FDL consequences.
Malaspina.com seems to have some link with Malaspina University College of Nanaimo, BC. The Hemingway material is not the only thing they have adapted from Wikipedia. While I was looking for how they reference other material I found that they also adapted the Michel Foucault, Mavis Gallant and the F. Scott Fitzgerald articles, but with functional links.
I don't know where this is leading, but assuming that the Hemingway article is properly on Wikipedia, I do have some concerns about how these articles are adapted, and how our freely available material might be used by commercial interests who leave the illusion that they own the copyrights. I say this here because this is where I found the issue. I should probably move these comments to the mailing list. Eclecticology 19:26 Oct 2, 2002 (UTC)
I think this page should be drastically redone; that much is obvious! This is what I propose:
- Go through the subpages and move all useful material here, without deleting from subpages;
- Go through subpages and remove all material irrelevant to the subject (which on Spain in Flames is everything after the first paragraph).
After this is done, I think we'll have a number of good articles and none of the above issues, as they relate to this article. --Sam
By the way, I realise that this will get very long, but once it's all here, we can chop it down and put in logical sections which will help break it up .--Sam
It's one thing to love Hemingway (or anyone else) and write a perhaps too lengthy article about them. But, it is unacceptable to allow crap like this to remain with unfullfilled promises such as Sam saying: once it's all here, we can chop it down and put in logical sections which will help break it up. What is worse, this massive amount of stuff is poorly done, often repeating itself, and lacking fact and proper research. This is the kind of garbage that DESTROYS Wikipedia's validity! .....DW
This text was an early contribution from IIRC Malcolm Farmer, and was added around April 2001. It was originally a paper submitted for the author's class (maybe it wasn't Malcolm Farmer). It *used* to be archived on the original author's homepage, but now I can't find the original author's page. KQ
- Maybe it was User:SoniC who contributed it instead? this page lists Andreas Flack as the author, but it's under the subfolder sonics_homepage, and the revision history of Hemingway shows the earliest edit to be a minor edit by SoniC. KQ
Hi!
Might be a bit late, but I just discovered this discussion and wanted to confirm that this artilce was originally by me. It was written as a thesis for school and used to be available at my now-defunct freenet page. I still hjave it somewhere on my disk. -- de:Benutzer:SoniC
To all Hemingway experts out there: Did Hemingway ever write a novel, play, poem, letter, note, shopping list or e-mail entitled Young and Innocent? No? So where does that bloody title come from? From the old Hemingway subpages? --KF 15:30 May 1, 2003 (UTC)
Yes, the title came because it was a header in our biography of Hemingway -- still is, in fact. For some reason, the biography was once spread out into subpages, but we don't do that sort of thing anymore, at least not with such unhelpful titles. Having Young and Innocent redirect to Ernest Hemingway once made sense for backwards compatibility, but that page can now be dedicated to the Hitchcock film. -- Toby 07:53 May 2, 2003 (UTC)
This is a featured article? I can't believe it. It reeks like a third-rate potboiler biography written for sensationalism. This must rank either as one of the great jokes of Wikipedia. Not only not a good article but a terrible one.
Bon mot Extracts:
- His illusions were shattered, but the experiences gathered were invaluable, and, what's more, everything turned out to be all right in the end, the good ones won, his wounds healed completely and Agnes was a mere "Schwärmerei" (Burgess (9.); page 24).
How this article got past the NPOV jury of at the Featured is anybody's guess. - Mandel 13:38, Jun 5, 2004 (UTC)
