Talk:Eris (mythology)
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[edit] Category:Roman goddesses
Is there any way to add Category:Roman goddesses to the Discordia entry, which is a redirect to Eris? Eris is a Greek goddess, of course, but Discordia should be listed in the Roman goddesses category. DenisMoskowitz 14:06, 2004 Jun 29 (UTC)
[edit] biased towards greek religion
the eris didnt change. the view has changed. the article seems biased towards ancient greek interpretation of eris. it is not good, as her cult is still alive and kicking
- I could see the value of adding Greek Mythology and Discordian Mythology subsections, and including some descriptions of Eris from Discordian sources. DenisMoskowitz 18:11, 2004 Jul 22 (UTC)
- good solution. --Kyknos 02:19, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
[edit] discordianism
I'll probably be writing some stuff up on Eris within Discordianism soon.
- I agree. This should be done. Hail Eris. Hail hail.
[edit] "Strife" vs. "Chaos"
In most of the references I've ever encountered of Eris in greek mythology or literature I've always seen the aspect translated as "Chaos" not as "Strife" (i.e. - Eris, the Greek Goddess of Chaos)
Is there any way to make a note that it is translated that way at times as well without it being deleted?
I'm not saying I want to remove any part of the original entry, just to amend it to include that she was often thought to personify chaos as well. --Ladysilvereyes 05:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- I've got to disagree. Everything thing I've seen indicates that she was though of as a bloody instigator of strife, conflict, war -- at best, healthy competition. I feel fairly confidant in saying that the disorder bit is a Discordian invention. JamesFox 12:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Avoiding edit wars
With today's announcement of the naming of Eris (the dwarf planet), there are two major public references to Eris. Given that Eris-related pages are getting jostled around, I'm suggesting that Eris be left as a disambiguation page. There are certainly strong arguments to be made for both mythology and astronomy fans with regards to claiming Eris, but a dab page seems to be the fairest approach to head off what would otherwise be an ongoing edit war. (This message appears on Eris, Eris (mythology), and 136199 Eris) --Ckatzchatspy 06:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- There is a way to solve this; by utilizing a disambiguation page that is disambiguated to be a disambiguation page. The naming of 136199 Eris is not even 24 hours old, and I had created Eris (disambiguation) which you had undoubtedly used for the disambiguation page that was Eris. A chunk of ice that was once named after a television character does not beget a thousand years old goddess. Ryūlóng 06:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ryulong, you were involved in the situation over at Pluto, so you know what can happen with these things. I'm trying to prevent problems, not create them. Also, you might want to reconsider your last statement -- as you know, Eris was never named "Xena". Furthermore, someone could just as easily say that a real object in the solar system, one that led to the redefinition of the term planet and the reclassification of Pluto, trumps a fictional character. --Ckatzchatspy 07:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- I support Ryulong's opinion. Erida (mythology) should be moved to Erida, not because the goddess would be more important than a real object, but simply because the original sense of the word should have the more important position. --Eleassar my talk 12:00, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Image
Ah, I see. There's a commons:Image:Eris.jpg that was tried to be added, but the local Image:Eris.jpg overrides this. Anyone know how to sort this out? Morwen - Talk 09:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- I have solved this by uploading commons:Image:Eris (Discordia).jpg and marking the other one for deletion --Gunter.krebs 09:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Eris versus Erida
Greek speakers know well that Eris (Έρις) and Erida (Έριδα) are different forms of the same name. They are not different goddesses. “Eris” is the nominative form of the name. Its genitive form is “Eridos” and its accusative form is “Erida”. In Modern Greek, however, the nominative form is also “Erida”. I suppose that this fact caused this confusion. Such a variation of the nominative form of nouns between Modern and Ancient Greek is very common. “Eris” is still used in Modern Greek but it sounds a bit archaistic. Actually, in Modern Greek, “erida” is the actual word that we use for strife. Fanis 14:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks very much for this explanation. I just stumbled upon this when I was considering in Slovenian Wikipedia whether to move Eris the dwarf planet to Erida or not. All other names approved by the IAU have their Slovenian equivalents: for example Pluton for Pluto, Neptun for Neptune and so on. Now I think the case is clear: the name of this celestial body should be written as Erida and not as Eris in Slovenian, as the goddess of discord is usually called Erida in our language and this is not a mistake. --Eleassar my talk 14:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Discordian section needs to be clarified
The entire discordian section needs to be clarified a bit as it's all based on a fictional work. Principia Discordia is not a true holy book but rather a parody, as anyone who has actually seen the work can attest. (It was a forerunner of the Church of the Subgenius, another long-running parody). Not meaning to wreck a good joke, but this is an encyclopedia and it such things need to be made clear. I've tried to indicate a bit of this by adding the fact that Eris, as depicted in P.D., is a character in the Illuminatus! Trilogy. 23skidoo 23:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean - in what sense is "Principia Discordia" not a "true holy book"? There's not some official holiness scale you can put it on. Discordianism is an actual (though silly) religion with actual adherents. I think the unclear parody-ness of Discordianism is made clear in the Discordianism article, there's no need to belabor it here. DenisMoskowitz 00:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
How does being used in a piece of fiction have any relevancy to whether that something is based on fiction or fact. I saw an episode of South Park with Jesus & Christians in it, is Christianity therefore a parody religion? Nope. So what possible bearing could it have on the status of Discordianism if Eris and Discordians appear in the Illuminatus trilogy, -none whatsoever. And, as it happens, I have read the PD and will most certainly not attest that it is 'just' a parody, therefore your claim, and the entire basis of your assertion, that anyone who has read will attest to that, is shown to be false.Number36 23:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Category:War goddesses
Okay, sure, so she caused one little war. Is that grounds to include her in the category "War Goddesses"? I mean, I get the feeling she looks nothing like Ares in a skirt.
- Ergh. Umm serious now. Right. She is the goddess of discord, chaos, strife. Those are her prime traits/duties. One war happened during her watch. If we attribute the Trojan War to her, shouldn't we also call the other three Goddesses involved War Goddesses, too? Loki's murdering Baldur led to Ragnarök, but we don't generally call him a War God, just a trickster. samwaltz 17:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, I hardly think it's even fair, or reflective of the facts as reported, to say she caused the war, I mean, she rolled an apple into a party, sure it said 'to the most beautiful' or something on it -but really how could anybody be reasonably expected to foresee that escalating into a literal, & huge, war, it was everybody else being ridiculously vain and excessively over-reactive (to the point of being of suspect mental health) that caused the war. Number36 02:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, she is certainly a war-goddess, strife in the sense of "battle-strife", and is often named as the sister and handmaiden of Ares. She is frequently portrayed striding across the battlefield: war is the ultimate discord! --Theranos 21:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- War isn't discord in and of itself, it is a possible result of discord though. Plenty of aspects of war are also extremely orderly, in fact there's a high degree of order within militaries generally speaking. Also war is much more than strife, to be a war goddess would suggest more than merely being representative of that one aspect, but representing the whole kit and caboodle. It comes down to this, was she specifically known as a war goddess? If not speculations, and extrapolations aren't relevant here.Number36 06:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- Peruse through this page recording the appearances of Eris in classical literature, and decide for yourself. http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Eris.html --Theranos 07:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- Well I can see how one could get the impression that she is a war goddess, but to me it all seems to rather say as above, that she's more specifically the goddess of strife and discord, which is (amongst other places) found in war. But calling her a war goddess when she isn't specifically named as one, but rather called the goddess of Strife, seems to be extrapolation. Related, closely associated, even Venn diagram over-lapping at points, but not the same. If every deity who was depicted as enjoying battle, causing a war or being in a war was a war deity we'd be labeling pretty much all of them war deities.Number36 23:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't disagree. Apollo is the god of battlefield archery, amongst other things, but he is rarely represented as a god of war. Athena on the other hand is, although she is just as importantly the goddess of industry (weaving, pottery, carpentry). Nevertheless, when the ancient poets speak of the gods of war, or of gods who attend the battlefield, they invariably speak of three: Ares, Athena and Eris-Enyo. Her other name Enyo, which Homer uses interchangeably with Eris, is Greek for "warlike" the female counterpart of Ares Enyalios. The Greeks also equated her with the war-goddess of Cappadocia in Asia Minor. --Theranos 08:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Enyo, who I would agree is a war goddess, may be closely associated with Eris but that doesn't mean she's the same Goddess. Despite the one example of Homer appearing to use them interchangeably there are plenty of other examples where they are mentioned as distinct entities. Consider the site that you link to above, Enyo and Eris have separate pages (as here), and though noting the interchangeability in Homer, it doesn't claim they are the same, and in plenty of the examples it gives they are clearly distinct. Though I must say I think their association warrants mention in this article, and the Enyo article.Number36 23:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't disagree. Apollo is the god of battlefield archery, amongst other things, but he is rarely represented as a god of war. Athena on the other hand is, although she is just as importantly the goddess of industry (weaving, pottery, carpentry). Nevertheless, when the ancient poets speak of the gods of war, or of gods who attend the battlefield, they invariably speak of three: Ares, Athena and Eris-Enyo. Her other name Enyo, which Homer uses interchangeably with Eris, is Greek for "warlike" the female counterpart of Ares Enyalios. The Greeks also equated her with the war-goddess of Cappadocia in Asia Minor. --Theranos 08:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Well I can see how one could get the impression that she is a war goddess, but to me it all seems to rather say as above, that she's more specifically the goddess of strife and discord, which is (amongst other places) found in war. But calling her a war goddess when she isn't specifically named as one, but rather called the goddess of Strife, seems to be extrapolation. Related, closely associated, even Venn diagram over-lapping at points, but not the same. If every deity who was depicted as enjoying battle, causing a war or being in a war was a war deity we'd be labeling pretty much all of them war deities.Number36 23:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Peruse through this page recording the appearances of Eris in classical literature, and decide for yourself. http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Eris.html --Theranos 07:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- War isn't discord in and of itself, it is a possible result of discord though. Plenty of aspects of war are also extremely orderly, in fact there's a high degree of order within militaries generally speaking. Also war is much more than strife, to be a war goddess would suggest more than merely being representative of that one aspect, but representing the whole kit and caboodle. It comes down to this, was she specifically known as a war goddess? If not speculations, and extrapolations aren't relevant here.Number36 06:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, she is certainly a war-goddess, strife in the sense of "battle-strife", and is often named as the sister and handmaiden of Ares. She is frequently portrayed striding across the battlefield: war is the ultimate discord! --Theranos 21:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, I hardly think it's even fair, or reflective of the facts as reported, to say she caused the war, I mean, she rolled an apple into a party, sure it said 'to the most beautiful' or something on it -but really how could anybody be reasonably expected to foresee that escalating into a literal, & huge, war, it was everybody else being ridiculously vain and excessively over-reactive (to the point of being of suspect mental health) that caused the war. Number36 02:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
