Talk:Erik Rhodes (actor)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. I screwed up and thought that the consensus was to move. I was probably thinking about the last move or something. I'm sorry for the confusion. However, I did move Erik Rhodes (disambiguation) to Erik Rhodes. With the failure of this move request, it does not make sense for Erik Rhodes to redirect here, because in that case the article might as well be at Erik Rhodes. I would have argued for the article to be moved, and for a link to be put at the top of the article for the porn star because the actor appears to be far more notable, but I don't think it is enough reason to override the lack of consensus. -- Kjkolb 10:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Erik Rhodes (actor) → Erik Rhodes … Rationale: for a second person of the same name all that was needed was a link at the top of the page, there is only one link to the porn star and 18 links to the original page for the actor who is by far more notable … Please share your opinion at Talk:Erik Rhodes (actor). —Doc 17:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support as nominator - reasons given in nomination Doc 22:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose The current format seems to be the standard indicated SneakyTodd 04:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. Lack of articles is not a reason to ue a redirect from the name. In fact this should probably be a discussion on moving Erik Rhodes (disambiguation) to Erik Rhodes. In the end it is better to have someone at a dab article then directed to the wrong article. Vegaswikian 08:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

• Oppose The current format seems to be the standard indicated by [Category:Lists_of_ambiguous_human_names]. I see no reason why this name should be any different. Also, could we move this move request to the disambiguation page? It seems much more likely that anybody seeking information on Erik Rhodes the actor/singer will come across this move request when placed here than somebody looking for informatino about Erik Rhodes the porn star; I think the disambiguation page would be a more reasonable place to put it. --Todd 04:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC) SneakyTodd linkable name for this user

On the contrary, the usual example here is to add a disambiguation page only for three or more of a name. However for the present, I have followed the solution that I have seen used before where there are many links for the most known name which is to redirect to that name and with pointers to the disambiguation page at the top of both pages. This may end up the final solution, but we'll see what admin input we get. Also, in the future, please sign your posts using the ~~~~ as requested before, so that your posts are linkable to your user page. Thanks. Doc 05:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

with regard to placement, this is the page where the 'move request' directions say to place the discussion. Doc 05:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

How many links are there that would need adjustment? 10? It really seems like you could spend much less effort just changing the links. The only reasons for making the move would be because the actor's article was up first, or because you think the actor is more notable. It doesn't make much sense to give the first article precendence in every case, as Wikipedia's article would become outdated. As far as notability, it completely depends on what your POV is. I bet you that the 2nd Erik Rhodes's movies generate more money than the 1st ones currently do.--Todd 11:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Pornography has always made money, but in this case you are evaluating an actor who's appeal is to a limited part of the gay community. There is no notability to other than the appeal to a part of a minority group. I am an inclusionist, so I'm not saying that the article should not be here, but to stack it next to an established actor who performed with Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire on stage and in the movies and who's family appeal is to all markets does not compare in my opinion. A porn star's appeal is to a niche market unless he/she becomes known for something more than that. --Doc 12:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

70 years ago, I would have definitely agreed with you, the actor would be very notable, and would deserve the main page. Currently, both actors appeal to niche markets, which is why I think the default page should be the disambiguation page. Granted, many people have heard of Fred Astaire, but he has been in quite a few movies, and has been associated with quite a few people. I had not heard of Ernest Sharpe before a couple of days ago, and I doubt very many people have. I know a lot of people who are very familiar with the porn star, but would not recognize (nor have seen or heard of) the actor, and would imagine that the opposite is true for you. --Todd 20:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

For that matter have you heard of Frederick Austerlitz? Original names are not really the issue here. On the other hand the appeal of any of the films that Erik Rhodes the actor appeared in could appeal to anyone, not just those with a certain orientation and the established nature of the original article. What we really need here is the input of other neutral persons on the principal not the persons in question. Doc 20:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, my reference to Ernest Sharpe was as a way to distinguish the two people in question, not as a way to say that I hadn't heard his original name. --Todd 22:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I think we both agree that the porn star is part of a niche market, so I guess the issue is whether or not the actor is as well. I think the fact that the porn star got the name Erik Rhodes is indicative here. No porn star in their right mind would name themselves "Brad Pitt;" there is already a well known person by that name. The fact that he got the name Erik Rhodes means that none of the people involved in the naming process (he was given his name by Studio 2000) had heard of the actor. Many people star in movies with family appeal; the actor Erik Rhodes, however, only has notability within a niche market. Although he could appeal to anyone, I think more people would use Wikipedia to try to find info on their favorite porn star. --Todd 22:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I hardly think that anyone would use Wikipedia to try and find pornography. This is an encyclopaedia and as such it tries to be inclusive, but notability must be shown and in most cases a porn star has to have become known outside of his medium to even be considered notable for an article. If that's what it's come to, a lot of folks might reconsider their financial contributions Doc 18:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.