Talk:Epicurus

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Epicurus the Butt hole This might be too trivial to put in, but Sam Kieth and Bill Messner Loebs made a great comic series about Epicurus. These stories are purposely full of anachronisms, but they are worth a read to anyone with a bit of knowledge on Greek philosophy and mythology.

Since not many philosophers get their own comic series, this could be interesting to put in the article. Then again, it doesn't say much about Epicurus. --tijmz 14:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC) I HATE THIS PERSON

Don't hate me, I just offered some trivia.

I vaguely remember that Epicurus was worshipped as a hero in the ancient world and that his birthday was celebrated on December 25. Does anyone have any information or confirmation of this notion? Thanks. Yes, Epicurus was regarded with very high esteem - and contemporary followers still exist. Since the advent of the internet, their revival has gathered pace, as can be seen on www.gardenofepicurus.com , which has a directory of Epicurean Gardens. His birthday is still celebrated by contemporary Epicureans.

There is no sensible connection between Epicureans and devotes of Sol Invictus, if that's what you're hoping for. --Wetman 07:58, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

He may have been worshipped, though evidence for that is slim. Regardless, his birthday was celebrated, as his will tells his friends to continue celebrating his birthday on the tenth day of Gamelion as was their habit. That would likely be sometime in February, but precisely when is not known. - Jamesmusik 08:41, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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The "Epicurus' paradox" link takes me to the "problem of evil" page, and neither page has Epicurus' version of the paradox itself:

Is god willing to prevent evil but can't? Then god is not omnipotent.

Is god able to prevent evil but won't? Then god is not good.

Is god both able and willing? Then where did evil come from?

Is god neither able nor willing? Then why call it god?

Also, I think the last paragraph as it currently stands makes a weird and sudden transition into editorializing.

Surely the time line is John Locke then Thomas Jefferson then the French Revolution?

Epicurus didn't have a playing piece on the "God" board at all. --Wetman 07:58, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 About the saying "lathe viosas",(live secretly) 2 Happiness Section 3 epicurus=rescuer 4 ReWriting 5 Large Additions: Tetrapharmakos" and "Early Physics: Epicurean Physics" 6 The 'Dark Philosopher'? 7 Epicure Foods

[edit] About the saying "lathe viosas",(live secretly)

it is quiet known to those who study Epicurianism. Most of what Epicurus wrote are not saved.Only some of his letters to his students. in one of them he says to a student: don't think how you will save the Greeks and be their hero, just enjoy food, friends etc. There is of cource the opposite philosophy: "Make your mark! Do something with your life. Be someone!". the funny thing is that Epicurus by trying to be nobody he became somebody, when millions of people today try to become somebody (15 minutes of publisity of Warhal) end to be nobodies. --Arberor 11:02, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I added the literary references (from TLG). dab (ᛏ) 11:42, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

i don't know the exact meaning of the word "obscurity". my dictionary on line (babelfish of Altavista (don't trust it)) translate it as "darkness". it applies also... i confess that the word "secretly" is not exact of "λάθε" (lathe). the exact thing is this: when some fish don't have water they live in the mud and do nothing. they just live. we then say (in Greece) that they live "λανθ'ανουσα" condition. The babelfish translates it as "latent" condition. does that make more sense? by the way "lathe" is a verb. but the word biosas is not correct. it is viosas. like "brain in a vat". there is an often missunderstanding between Greeks and other Europeans, as they translate "v" to "b". That is the case, i think. We Greeks know for sure that is "lathe viosas". "th" as in mountth. i 'll look it up and come again. i shall look your links too. nice talking to you.--Arberor

Hi Arberor. I know you say "vios-" in modern Greek. In Ancient Greek, however, people said "bios-". See also Beta (letter). "live in obscurity" is a literary translation with some tradition. It is true that "latent" is cognate to the Greek word, but the meaning is not quite the same. "obscurity" means "darkness" in English, but "in obscurity" is an idiom for "hidden". lathe is not a verb, it's an adverb, while biosas is a verb. Plutarch's latenter vivendo is the Latin translation. The literal translation is "you should live hidden", but "live in obscurity" is better, trust me :o) dab (ᛏ) 07:54, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

didn't know that the ancient Greeks said "bios". i'll look on Beta. however i have the strong impression that "lathe" is a verb (imperative). the verse says "Escape attention!", lathe! but i won't insist. i'll have it in mind if i meet a professor, which i doubt (i avoid them) or i'll look the internet, and if find something i'll let you know. What 's written in the page is correct. that counts. see you..--Arberor 09:10, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You are right, I am sorry. I thought it was used adverbially, but I was influenced by the latin translation. I'll try to improve the translation. dab (ᛏ) 09:21, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

(had problems with my phone). ok. that means that lathe is the imperative of "lanthano". (λανθάνω-be latent).is it not? couldn't find anything in the "Greek web".(There is really anarchy.don't have any contact to ancient Greek sources...)this is the important thing if we want to know what the verse means: if it is lanthano, it means something like: escape attention by reducing my activities. like the fish i was telling you about. i can give you many examples of modern Greek words that have "lath" inside.they are illuminating. like "lathrepivaths",(λαθρεπιβάτης),(stowaway?),(the person who travels in secret in order not to pay the ticket). That's how Epicurus meant it, i guess...(old rascal Epicurus.Didn't want to pay the ticket!) Now what is biosas? it ends like a participle. don't really know. it must be a participle. see you dab..--Arberor 10:47, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

yes, lanthano simply means "to hide", or maybe also, less actively, "to avoid detection". the literal translation into English is a bit akward, biosas being the aorist participle of "to live". it would basically mean "avoid detection as on who lives", or "hide with respect to living" or something like that. the meaning of course is "keep a low profile", "live your life without meddling with others" etc. "hide" is too strong, the suggestion isn't that you hide in a bunker so noone finds you, but, as you have pointed out already, "live peacefully, off the stage of public attention". I think our explanation is quite alright as it is now. dab (ᛏ) 12:58, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This conversation is quite old, but I found something useful concerning this subject. The following passage is from Liddell-Scott Greek English Lexicon (Oxford, Clarendon Press):

λανθάνω ... most freq. with a participle added, in which case we usually translate the participle with a Verb and express λανθάνω by an Adverb "unawares, without being observed"

So, the current translation is very good! :-) Benio76 22:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Happiness Section

Sorry for deleting the section without explaining. It's so completely wrong that it doesn't belong on the page at all. Epicurus' theory of pursuing pleasure has no relation to Aristotle's theory of the mean. Epicurus held that pleasure is the absence of pain and his theory is thus binary and explicitly excludes any possibility of a mean between pleasure and pain: "The removal of pain is the limit of the magnitude of pleasures. Wherever pleasure is present, as long as it is there, pain or distress or their combination is absent" (Epicurus, Kuriae Doxae 3, from Diogenes Laertius' Life of Epicurus X.139). Jamesmusik 05:04, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] epicurus=rescuer

Didn't Epicurus also mean 'rescuer'in Ancient Greek?Sorry If I am mistaken, but I tought It would have been of interest...

I believe you're thinking of epirrothos. epikuro means to light upon or fall in with though, and epikuroo means to confirm, sanction, or ratify. Jamesmusik

I think that Epicuros means helper in fact. Also there was Epicuros Apollon, which meant the Apollo who helps the people. I think "he" was a god to "visit" for illnesses and health problems. But Epicuros himself wanted to help and cure the illnesses of the soul. In greece we also use a term for the Assisant Professor=Epicuros Kathigitis. Also epi means "upon, on to" and kouros means "man, young man " so epi-kouros is the one who reaches upon men(and women) to help and guard.

You're quite correct... I was looking up epikuros instead of epikouros, which means assistant or ally.Jamesmusik 23:50, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, then we should probably put this in the page. I think it's quite an interesting bit of trivia, not to mention the wonderous coincidence between the name and his philosophy that tries to alleviate the pains of life. --David88 15:17, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

It happens too rarely, but this time the german page is much better <eg>

[edit] ReWriting

In my opinion, this article is one of the porrest written of the ones i've seen. It provides a very limited amount of information, and it is almost written assuming that you should already know most of the information about Epicurus. I was seaching for a complete account of what he was famous for, having almost no information to begin with, and instead recieved a cryptic acount of sparse details that was arranged quite erratically, preventing me from recieving needed, in the time I had. I suggest the writting of the article including the facts that even the less informed will be able to understand it.68.54.102.28 23:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Large Additions: Tetrapharmakos" and "Early Physics: Epicurean Physics"

I just though it was funny that this page did not include Epicurus' "Tetrapharmakos." The "Tetrapharmakos" is probably the easiest doctrine and direct quote (list) one could ever find by a philosopher--and that it needn't be abridged or simplified.

I also added Epicurus' early take on physics and the explanation of the physical world. Indeed, though, is that most of his "ideas" are totally wrong now, but it is certainly educational in a sense that one gets from them an understanding of how some of the earliest thinkers rationalized a natural phenomena into a coherent mental picture and words. There is still more remaining to be said where I left off, but I need to know if I'm on the right track or if that the language I chose communicates well. LCecere 07:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The 'Dark Philosopher'?

Just a question, but are there any references for this claim? Burnage13 08:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

There are three versions of his longevity here: 341-271, 341-270 & 'at the age of 72'. Which is most authoritative? Rothorpe 20:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Epicure Foods

Hi, quick question. We've just launched a site for Epicure; they're a British food importers who've been around since the 1800's... but I couldn't find mention of them on the wiki.

I would be very happy to do some research and write an article ( I'm just the techie so I don't know a whole lot about the client but I could ask for some of the history of the company from the horses mouth so to speak )..

Thing is I'm not quite sure how much this would be seen as self-promotion since of course I've got a vested interest in seeing their profile raised.

What's best? Should I write an article as well as I can and let others decide it's validity.. in which case should it live as a sub-section here or should I start it under Epicure Foods??

Thanks, --Jimbo 09:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)