Talk:Enoch Powell
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[edit] Views on America
"He was also immensely suspicious of American foreign policy after what he deemed to be the American betrayal of British interests during the Suez Crisis."
This is not quite true. Powell had thought America was Britain's enemy while serving in the army during the Second World War after talking with some senior American officers in Algiers which had confirmed, to Powell, that one of America's main war aims was to end the British Empire and undermine Britain.
Powell was opposed to the Suez campaign of 1956 because he thought that when in 1954 the British decided to leave Suez they did so because they could not maintain themselves there and so any attempt to reclaim Suez was illogical.
Also in 1954 Powell changed from a believer in an "Empire of positions" (an imperialist) where Britain could be a world power through military bases around the world to a British nationalist where Britain should get rid of her nuclear weapons, get rid of the Commonwealth, not join the E.E.C. and keep Ulster.
Powell in the 1980s claimed that America was pressurising British Governments to get Ulster into a united Ireland so that the all-Ireland state would join NATO and so have complete mastery of the Atlantic.
one of America's main war aims was to end the British Empire and undermine Britain - what utter twaddle. RickK 21:23, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
No he really did believe that.
And he was not the only one. Certainly by 1945 Roosevelt and Churchill were at loggerheads over the future of the Empire.
Hey Rick, please read the facts documented in The Collapse of British Power by Corelli Barnett and then see if you still think it is twaddle that America wanted to finish the British Empire - AG, Stockport, UK.
A reading of the 'Atlantic Charter' and Churchill's doubts about US insistence on certain aspects of it is instructive.
[edit] "Some regarded as racist"
Way to down play the racism of Enoch Powell, a speech "that some regarded as racist"? What is unclear about Powells racism in that speech? (or more generally?) I agree, racism is 'controversial', something that is given little significance in this article at all, despite it being a defining element of Powells character/ideas
Of course, it all depends on what you mean by "racist". I personally, along with a great deal of other people, would not consider Powell racist. Certainly, saying it was "a defining element of Powells [sic] character/ideas" is not only intellectually lazy, but wrong as well.
Powell was not racist in that he never believed in white supremacy or wanted repatriation because the immigrants were non-white. He didn't want immigration because the immigrants were foreign and had a different culture. Powell would often say he never understood the concept of 'race' because no one could tell him what it was - "are an Englishman and a Welshman the same race, or different ones?" to quote Powell. Also, he added that if the immigrants were German or Russian there would still be a big 'problem'. Powell even admitted in an interview it was not 'impossible' for a black man to be British - just 'very hard'. To Powell it was about culture and nationality, not colour of skin.
Alot of what powell said has come true in todays "multicultural" society, he should be seen as a visionary rather than a racist
I think you've confused 'visionary' with 'bigot'. --209.166.75.105 10:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Housman's influence
...he completed his education at Trinity College, Cambridge, where he fell under the powerful influence of A. E. Housman...
I haven't got the books to hand, but I recall reading that by the time Powell arrived at Cambridge, Housman (in his mid seventies) was more or less withdrawn from active teaching, and that the only thing Powell learnt from him was the correct way to crack nuts or some other matter of social etiquette! True Housman may have still dominated the discipline but that isn't the same thing as implied above. Does anyone know for sure? Timrollpickering 01:32, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I am guilty of the above comments based on a half-remembered radio profile I think. However, now I check the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography it says Under the influence of A. E. Housman he developed his skills as a textual critic... Of course, Powell's poetry was obviously influenced by Housman's so I think that the comment stands. Cutler 13:35, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Toning down
Not sure why we're so scared of the word controversial, Powell was certainly that. Cutler 11:21, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not scared of it, I dislike it. It's a feeble cliche. Virtually all politicians are "controversial." Adam 11:37, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It's only "controversial" if you disagree with it. For instance, at the moment, it says that one of his controversial policies was opposition to Britain's entry to the EEC. There's nothing controversial about that. It may be against the tide of popular opinion, but it's not controversial.
[edit] The Pogo stick story
The Times of 1962 has a story of a press photographer going through a London square and spotting Enoch Powell, the Minister of Education, bouncing around on a pogo stick. Anyone care to investigate further?
- It's well known and reproduced in several biographies. (He was promoting a keep-fit campaign.) There was even a website a few years ago devoted to trying to find pictures of modern politicians doing similar stuff. Timrollpickering 17:34, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Certainly a bizarre image even if not seen.
- It can be seen on the front page of Statesman or Skatesman?. Timrollpickering 22:12, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This link is non-functional 16 September 2005: would like to see it. Perhaps pogo-sticking and other interesting means of locomotion should be encouraged among present day politicians should be encouraged - might get the voters interested :)
- Try this link to a version saved on the Internet Archive. --Spondoolicks 15:23, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "He was a staunch monetarist"
I'm not sure that there was such a thing as monetarism in the 1950s and even if there were, I'm not convinced that it was possible to be a staunch champion thereof. Nobody doubts Powell's free market credentials but to burden him with the baggage of a discredited fiscal strategy of the 1980s seems partisan. Any views? Cutler 02:09, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"Although a strong monetarist, his views were often socially relaxed. He voted for relaxed divorce laws in 1965 on the grounds that two unhappy people should not be forced to maintain their unhappy state. He also voted for relaxed abortion laws, claiming that such actions are on the conscience of the individual, not the government."
This paragraph could do with improvement. I don't see what monetarism has to do with anyone's social views.
[edit] Conversion to Anglicanism
Should it be mentioned that he converted from atheism to Anglicanism? http://www.nndb.com/people/382/000095097/ Homagetocatalonia 22:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Thatcher an Atlanticist?
'analysis was taken seriously by the Atlanticist Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher' was Margaret Thatcher really an Atlanticist? Mdecker london 06:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
- The article on Atlanticism gives this definition: Atlanticism is a philosophy of cooperation among European and North American nations regarding political, economic, and defense issues. One who believes in Atlanticism is known as an Atlantist or an Atlanticist. I'd certainly say definitely she was an Atlanticist.--Johnbull 15:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
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- I've never heard of Thatcher's attempt to get Gorbachev to halt German reunification. Please could we have a citation to back this up.
NBeddoe 14:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
