Wikipedia talk:Embedded list
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[edit] "See Also"
(moved from Wikipedia:Village pump)
We don't seem to be in the habit of putting See Also links in our articles. Isn't it common practice in paper encyclopedias to have a See Also section right under the article title?
For example: Energy See also energy conservation, energy policy, energy engineering.
The reason I bring this up is that some of our articles address a particular meaning of a word, with no indication of where one might turn for information on other senses. On the Conservation page, there is a nice sentence explaining that the page is about the conservation ethic, not laws of conservation in science. But isn't there a simpler way to just put See also Conservation of Energy or whatever totally different meaning a reader might be thinking of? Hawstom 23:29, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- I thought "See Also:" was used pretty extensively here. Just go ahead and add wherever you think appropriate. There are also disambiguation pages and disambiguation statements added (usually) at the top of a page where more than one meaning could have lead a reader there - Marshman 00:02, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- "See Also" is not meant for disambiguation. It has more or less the same function as the internal links in the body of the article. It is used when there is no natural place for the link in the text or when a particular link is thought to be very important. Andres 04:09, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed clarification/exception for bulleted paragraphs
I notice that this style guideline makes an exception for items that would result in a lengthy sentence. I propose a second exception for items that are currently short paragraphs. Sometimes, having them in a bulleted list makes them easier to read than if they were just short paragraphs without bullets. It also doesn't seem right to artificially condense unrelated points into a bigger paragraph. As an example, please see: 2005_Texas_Longhorn_football_team#After_the_season. I think this section is very clear the way it is formatted, though its formatting violates the stipulations currently found on this page. Johntex\talk 18:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that arbitrariness is uncool, and support your exception. And in cases where points are being made, or a specified number is mentioned for the presented things (like "the seven deadly sins are:", then enumeration can be used instead of bullets. -- The Transhumanist 06:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed clarification/exception for a list of accomplishments
I also think this page is too restrictive with regards to items that are traditionally expressed as a list. An example would be a list of records set by an athlete or sports team. While it would be possible to write these as complete sentences, doing so would actually decrease their readability. As an example, please see: 2005_Texas_Longhorn_football_team#Notable_statistics and_accomplishments. I think this section is very clear the way it is formatted, though its formatting violates the stipulations currently found on this page. Johntex\talk 21:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Items with statistics are better displayed in list or table formats, not in paragraph form. Also, the page is very opinionated. Editors have differing styles, and to claim that "lists make Wikipedia worse, not better" is silly. Lists and tables help break up long pages of otherwise seemingly endless text. They also tend to draw the attention of the reader to the items they display and can therefore be very useful for emphasizing important information. The example given seems somewhat contrived and the paragraph is very cludgy because of the dates in parentheses. Let me give it a shot:
As a basic principle, when subsequent paragraphs are children of the paragraph that precedes them, you should avoid merely stacking such paragraphs if they contain information that would be easier to read in a list format. Such "children" logically qualify for indentation beneath their parent description. It is also more acceptable to bold the item entries in lists. For example:
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At the beginning of the 20th-century, New York City was a center for the Beaux-Arts architecutural movement, attracting the talents of such great architects as Stanford White and Carrere and Hastings. As better construction and engineering technology become available as the century progressed, New York became the focal point of the competition for the tallest building in the world. The city's striking skyline has been composed of numerous and varied skyscrapers, many of which are icons of 20th-century architecture. The Flatiron Building, standing 285 ft (87 meters) high, was one of the tallest buildings in the city upon its completion in 1902, made possible by its steel skeleton. It was one of the first buildings designed with a steel framework, and to achieve this height with other construction methods of that time would have been very difficult. The Woolworth Building, a neo-Gothic "Cathedral of Commerce" overlooking City Hall, was designed by Cass Gilbert. At 792 feet (241 meters), it became the world's tallest building upon its completion in 1913, an honor it retained until 1930, when it was overtaken by 40 Wall Street. That same year, the Chrysler Building took the lead as the tallest building in the world, scraping the sky at 1,046 feet (319 m). More impressive than its height is the building's design, by William Van Alen. An art deco masterpiece with an exterior crafted of brick, the Chrysler Building continues to be a favorite of New Yorkers to this day. The Empire State Building, the first building to have more than 100 floors (it has 102), was completed the following year. It was designed by Shreve, Lamb and Harmon in the contemporary Art Deco style. The tower takes its name from the nickname of New York State. Upon its completion in 1931, it took the top spot as tallest building, and at 1,472 feet (448 m), towered above all other buildings until 1973. When the World Trade Center towers were completed in 1973 many felt them to be sterile monstrosities, even though they were the world's tallest buildings at that time. But most New Yorkers became fond of "The Twin Towers" and after the initial horror for the loss of life in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks there came great sadness for the loss of the buildings. The Empire State Building is again the tallest building in New York City. |
At the beginning of the 20th-century, New York City was a center for the Beaux-Arts architecutural movement, attracting the talents of such great architects as Stanford White and Carrere and Hastings. As better construction and engineering technology become available as the century progressed, New York became the focal point of the competition for the tallest building in the world. The city's striking skyline has been composed of numerous and varied skyscrapers, many of which are icons of 20th-century architecture:
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Which example above looks more like a sterile monstrosity? Which one was easier to read? Breaking up an article's text in various ways makes it it easier for the reader to follow and remember, because the logical structure is represented in the way the material is displayed, and can be seen as plain as day.
Well, what do you think?
The Transhumanist 17:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC) 10:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that lists are often better, although even the left side looks fine due to the proper division into paragraphs.--Patrick 08:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unfair comparison
This comparison is unfair because the main difference is that on the left there is more content:
| The 20th century architecture of New York City includes numerous icons of architecture, most notably its striking skyscrapers.
At the beginning of the century, the city was a center for the Beaux-Arts movement, with architects like Stanford White and Carrere and Hastings. New York's skyscrapers include the Flatiron Building (1902) where Fifth Avenue crosses Broadway at Madison Square, Cass Gilbert's Woolworth Building (1913) a neo-Gothic "Cathedral of Commerce" overlooking City Hall, the Chrysler Building (1929) the purest expression of the Art Deco skyscraper and the Empire State Building (1931) are all skyscraper icons. Modernist architect Raymond Hood and after World War II Lever House began the clusters of 'glass boxes' that transformed the more classic previous skyline of the 1930s. When the World Trade Center towers were completed in 1973 many felt them to be sterile monstrosities, but most New Yorkers became fond of "The Twin Towers" and after the initial horror for the loss of life in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks there came great sadness for the loss of the buildings. |
20th century architecture of New York City
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Two questions are mixed up here:
- whether a list form is better
- whether extra content is better
Patrick 08:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
