Talk:Elli Perkins

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Elli Perkins article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] See comments

	This article is supported by WikiProject Scientology, a collaborative effort to help develop and improve Wikipedia's coverage of Scientology. The aim is to write neutral and well-referenced articles on Scientology-related topics. See WikiProject Scientology and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. See comments

An entry from Elli Perkins appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 28 March 2007.

[edit] Re-wording and expansion

I expanded a bit on his short Sea Org career. I also renamed the Death section to Murder, as it seems to more accuratly describe the circumstances. Anynobody 05:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• Looks good, and is backed up by reputable secondary sourced citations... Smee 05:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

Also specified her occupation. Anynobody 06:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• The introduction could use some expansion per WP:LEAD. Smee 07:00, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

I gave it a shot, and did a bit more rewording in the interest of WP:NPOV. Anynobody 23:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• I added the 48 Hours mention back into the intro, I think it's of note to the reader and a significant event. But we should expand the intro even more with bits of chronology from the article... Smee 05:05, 24 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree the 48 Hours belongs in the article, but would you consider removing the mention at the end? I found it slightly repetitive being mentioned in two separate places. Anynobody 05:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Hrm, the intro is supposed to summarize the whole piece, thus someone could quickly read the intro and get the gist of the whole article. If more info were added to expand the intro itself, summarizing the article, the 48 Hours bit would not stand out and seem so repetitive... Smee 05:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC).

I completely agree with you that the intro should summarize the whole article, but the 48 Hours piece isn't really part of the Perkins history than any story about her is. It is a great secondary source, and it's what keeps a lot of the article from being original research so I'm not trying to discount it in any way. It just strikes me as unnecessary to include a great reference in the intro, closing, and references sections. The simplest way I can sum up my view might sound snide, but please don't take it that way. Essentially the article is about Elli Perkins not Elli Perkins 48 Hours special. That's why I nixed the mention in the opening, the paragraph at the end explained the relevance better IMHO. Anynobody 05:35, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

• Okay, after that long bit I think I see your points, but in general the intro should be expanded. Maybe after it has, we could put a brief mention of the 48 Hours bit back in, so I will remove it for now. Smee 05:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC).

I think I understand what you mean, is this edit closer to what you had in mind? (I don't like concentrating on one source, but if the intro mentions a few I'm ok with that.) Anynobody 06:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks better. There are many many more articles on this from The Buffalo News [1], but I'd like to find some more from other varied news sources as well... Suffice it to say that there are plenty more reputable secondary sourced citations to keep individuals busy expanding the article with reputable material... Smee 06:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC).

I trimmed the intro sentence a tad, it was kind of running on. The term professional glass artist conveys that she didn't just paint for fun but made some money on it too. Anynobody 08:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. Smee 18:00, 24 March 2007 (UTC).

It seems that the Murder section is not accurate compared to the written statement by Jeremy. In his written statement it is clear that he waited until she had hung up the phone to force her into a bedroom, rather than what is listed as him attacking her while she was on the phone. Some of the quotes in this section could be cleaned up as well. Minor things, but they are quotes. For example he said "I decided to do my Mom in instead". This seemes to be an important distinction from what is listed for the vernacular. BrycebeverlinII 18:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His Statement

I found a copy of the police statement he gave about the murder which was presented at his trial, and included it in the article. I see why they found him not guilty by mental defect, he's still referring to her in the present tense AFTER admitting to killing her and mutilating her corpse. Is this ok to add? If so, should we Wikisource it? (If not, just revert me and explain why not please.) Anynobody 00:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• This is okay to add. I will work on clarifying up exactly its status, but it is public domain. Smee 04:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC).

I changed the copyright tag, you're correct the previous tag was right about it's status but wrong about the reason. Anynobody 04:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I also added two more court documents which explain the outcome, he was not responsible by mental disease or defect. Then committed six months later. I added references to the documents themselves, does anyone think it'd be to much to add them as thumbnails in the article? Anynobody 06:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

That sounds fine. However, I would say that if you are going to be adding lots of documents which we know were released to the public domain as the result of a criminal proceeding, it would be a better idea to upload them first to Wikimedia Commons, and then reference here, so that they are available to all projects... Smee 06:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC).

I have some other files I meant to move over to Wikimedia, I wanted to give the article a little time to see if people preferred them or I was also going to suggest Wikisourcing them. Anynobody 07:50, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. These are all I had, so unless I find more we're just talking about the three images. Anynobody 07:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Okay sounds good. It's a fun thing to learn, you might want to put them there yourself... Smee 08:10, 25 March 2007 (UTC).

I had planned on doing it myself for that exact reason, I prefer to rely on myself for getting things done. The only way to do that of course, is to DIY. Anynobody 08:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, sounds good. Smee 08:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Jeremy's birth

Could someone add to the "early life" secton at what point jeremy was born? i figure that since he was at least 24, it was before the family moved to california, but i think either his birth year or his age when he committed the murder would be helpful (if available). thanks! --Someones life 23:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure it's available because I saw it mentioned in more than one article. I think he was 28 or 29, but I'll double check and add a cited statement about how old he was when the murder occurred. Thank you for pointing that out, Anynobody 00:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)