Talk:Eliyathamby
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[edit] Notability and cleanup
This person certainly seems notable enough for Wikipedia, but the article needs a lot of work in terms of spelling, grammar, layout, wikilinks, formatting and citation of references. As the article states, there is not much published information about this subject: I certainly could find no mention of him on Google. However, I don't understand why the article is so vague in the usual important encyclopaedic detail:
- Date and place of birth?
- Date and place of death?
- Years his companies were founded?
...and yet full of unnecessary, trivial, badly-formatted and overly-detailed information such as a supposed family tree leading back to the Jaffna dynasty, and a complete list of Mr Eliyathamby's cars - these should be deleted.
User:Dev buznik, please do continue to edit and develop the article, but please don't remove the cleanup tags User:Ambuj.saxena and I have added until some other editors have looked at the page and done the work necessary to clean it up to Wikipedia standards.
--Canley 14:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Verification needed
I don't want to have to tag this article as a hoax, but I am having trouble verifying any of the information in it. A Google search for "Eliyathamby Singapore" brings up about 61 links, none of which are related to this individual. The article states that he was protective of his private life, but a pioneering billionaire on a small island with a $9.6 billion fortune and owning dozens of companies and properties, yet having no mention at all on the internet I find unlikely.
I'm most concerned about the lack of important dates in the article, specifically when he was born and when he died. The only dates are when his cars were made! (an unnecessary inclusion which I have removed).
Other questions and statements I think need to be researched or verified:
- According to the Great Eastern Life Assurance website, the company was incorporated in 1908, is this a correct date to add to this article? This would mean he would have been born at the latest around 1880 or so.
- It is mentioned that he is a "member" (possibly should be "descendent") of the Jaffna royal dynasty. Wouldn't this make him Sri Lankan rather than Indian?
- His "$9.6 billion" fortune - is this in Singaporean dollars, US dollars, Malaysian ringgit? Which issue of Forbes was this mentioned in? Is it contradictory to mention that he turned down Forbes? What did he turn down?
- His list of qualifications included a number of qualifications in Obstetrics and Gynaecology, indicating he was qualified (very well-qualified) as a medical doctor and gynaecologist, yet this was not mentioned in the article at all! I finally discovered that the whole section was copied incorrectly from Shan Ratnam. I have deleted them.
- Which Sultan of Brunei admired his car collection?
- Presumably he died sometime after 1969, which is when his most recent car was made, but when exactly.
The only detail in this article I can verify is the reference to the book "Indian Pioneers of Singapore" by Pugalenthi Sr. which is available on Amazon.co.uk.
User:Dev buznik, if you can fill in any of the gaps or provide some verifiable information or web links, that would go a long way to improving this article and protecting it from deletion.
--Canley 08:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I tagged it as hoax. -- Dodo bird 10:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Reply and response
User:Dev buznik replied on my talk page to the above comments:
- this is in reference to the advice provided by canley on the article stated above, firstly i would want to state that this article is true and is part of a research project that i am conducting as i am piecing the pieces together. i request all of the previous items to be placed back as they are all true. i do understand that all of this required clear evidence and statements. this being a thing of the past it is rather difficult as singapore generally does not publish data that is freely available.
- -firstly eliya thamby had great influence and had the ability to squash up important matters, thus my goal is to dicover what really went on thus i am doing so secondly from a source it was said that he was a medical doctor and was qualified for the task, but chose not to do so. as that was not what he wanted to do, it was said to be because it was his dad's ambition and so on, it was also partly related to status. the very fact he went on to being a gynaecologist was due to the fact that his father was around for a while ensuring his sons future.
- -secondly the only thing that i was able to find out about him easily was his cars as this was what he was known for.
- -great eastern assurance had been founded by another induvidual who went into monetary troubles as time went on, thus it has been said that eliyathamby took on the task of establishing the company it was said that initialy said that he was the silent investor and later went mainstream.
- these are the bits and pieces that i am piecing together to try and uncover the mystery of mr. eliyathamby
- thus i request for the item not be removed but i shall ensure that it is improved but over the course of time
Firstly, thanks for replying, and your efforts to improve the article. I have rewritten much of the article for spelling and grammar reasons, and formatted the first reference book. This article is beginning to suffer from a revert war, the verify tag has been removed several times with no attempt to verify the information. The talk page has also been blanked several times.
- The problem with the article is that it violates one of the main guidelines of Wikipedia: Verifiability. If you read that page, you'll see that we're not interested in whether something is true or not, but that it is verifiable as true. Your comments above also seem to indicate that portions of this article are original research, which is another major no-no on Wikipedia. If his life is such a mystery, then perhaps he does not belong on Wikipedia at all.
- The family tree and list of cars have no place on Wikipedia. They are unencyclopedic - true they may be, but they are pointless and difficult to read. I have linked to the web page from which you copied the family tree (it might also be a copyright violation). While his car collection may be notable and worth mentioning, listing each car in the collection is not.
- You say that "Singapore does not publish data that is freely available". If it was freely available, there would be no problem. That said, you have listed at least six references of books and magazines. How about noting which claims from the article come from which book? If you're not sure, or the info is a rumour, then leave it out.
- I did not delete the list of academic qualifications because I did not believe he could have been a qualified gynaecologist. I deleted them because the list was identical to the list of qualifications in the article Shan Ratnam (an article you have also edited).
- I have posted a message on the Singaporean Wikipedians notice board in the hope that some other Singaporeans can help verify and improve the article.
- I have to again stress the importance of dates, of which none are mentioned in this article. Eliyathamby's date of death must be known at least!
I'll be keeping an eye on this article over the next few weeks. To those people blanking the talk page, please don't! --Canley 14:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
reply to canley
I read the note on the singapore talk page, to my knowledge Eliyathamby was a rather important person and he did run the great eastern assurance because, my father worked for the company close to 60 years ago now he is about 84. i did ask him about it he said that it was run by one , Mr.Eliya Thamby, he said he was ceylonese but not very sure about the royalty thing though. I also think it is possible that he was one of the richest induviduals in singapore, as he was one wealthiest with several houses and properties strewn aroun Singapore. i also do agree with the statement made Mr.Buznik that singapore is very secretive, as in Singapore an important person can exert influence to a very large degree. There is not much more than this that i know because most of the information about Eliyathamby i have derived from my father. I may be right or wrong on this one, but i belive that in the singaporean courts the dispute of his property and asets as he left no will, has been the longest court case in the singaporean court's history. --User:Ye Hui
[edit] singapore discussion board
saw your notice on the singapore discussion board about Eliyathamby, regarding his date of birth he was born around the early 1900s or the late 1800s, he died about maybe 1950-1960. The accurate date can be checked by going through the newspaper archives in the the head office of the strait times but a certain level of authorisaion is required to view these archives. but a far as i can say he was a rather important figure in early singapore.
[edit] Thanks
Thanks to those from the Singapore notice board who responded here regarding this article. To those editing or expanding this in the future, it should now be pretty safe from being tagged as a hoax or deleted, but I think the verification tag should be kept until solid verifiable details about Eliyathamby's life can be found and sourced. --Canley 14:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
