Talk:Eliyahu Asheri

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Most of the press is using the spelling "Eliyahu". Can someone create a redirect?

Also the Abu Abir quote is factually incorrect, and a casual reader of this entry may not realize this. He is a yeshiva student. [1]

Poor kid.

[edit] Timing of the murder

There seems to be some confusion over when he was murdered. Washington Post and Jpost report that it looks like Asheri was killed right after he was kidnapped. The PLC claims he was executed as a result of the Gaza offensive. [2]

• I don't think there's any confusion, per se. The Israeli authorities have conducted an initial forensic examination and will no doubt correct or confirm it. Obviously the PLC has an interest in avoiding the appearance that their demands were nothing but a scam. Israel doesn't negotiate with terrorists, anyway, but an immediate murder will not help perceptions in the international community, anyway. --Leifern 12:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

According to this Jerusalem Post story, the OC of the IDF's Central Command, Major-General Ya'ir Naveh, confirmed that Asheri was executed immediately after being abducted on Sunday. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885858552&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Obviously, you have to decide who you believe.

Cymruisrael 13:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Changing murdered to killed: The use of the term "murder" in this article is not, to my mind, NPOV. Palestinain sources explicitly claimed that he was effectively a miliary cadet and was killed for that reason. These sources clearly would not see it as murder per se but as an act of an ongoing military struggle. The term "murder" implicitly suggests many presuppositions regarding the nature of the Israeli-Palestinian issue in general that are not, and could not be, and indeed should not be, supported in an article such as this. As we know, there is an ongoing terminological debate in articles on the Israel-Palestine issue. I do not believe that this modification should be taken as in any way offensive, nor does it reflect a POV. "Killed (by)" is probably the most neutral term we have at our disposal as it in no way offers support to the callous act. This is clearly an emotive issue, and the death of Asheri is truly a tragedy. Therefore I think it all the more important to use the most clear and objective English in order to preserve and convey the story of Asheri's life and death.

The second to last paragraph reads: "The Popular Resistance Committees initially claimed responsibility for the attack, and an initial Shin Bet investigation revealed that the abduction was carried out by a Tanzim cell with links to the PLC, but later it became known that the kidnapping was planned and carried out by Fatah members." This paragraph clearly needs some citations. The "later it became known..." part is not Wiki standard. I am not refuting the information, but it needs to be conveyed more objectively.

[edit] Redirect

I think we're working on standard transliteration of Hebrew words in Wikipedia, but I think that anyone doing a redirect should at least explain why. I'm fine with it, but annoyed that it was just done without explanation. --Leifern 16:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

what exactly didn't you like in trasliteration? -- tasc ^words_deeds 16:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Killed/murdered

Changing murdered to killed: The use of the term "murder" in this article is not, to my mind, NPOV. Palestinain sources explicitly claimed that he was effectively a miliary cadet and was killed for that reason. These sources clearly would not see it as murder per se but as an act of an ongoing military struggle. The term "murder" implicitly suggests many presuppositions regarding the nature of the Israeli-Palestinian issue in general that are not, and could not be, and indeed should not be, supported in an article such as this. As we know, there is an ongoing terminological debate in articles on the Israel-Palestine issue. I do not believe that this modification should be taken as in any way offensive, nor does it reflect a POV. "Killed (by)" is probably the most neutral term we have at our disposal as it in no way offers support to the callous act. This is clearly an emotive issue, and the death of Asheri is truly a tragedy. Therefore I think it all the more important to use the most clear and objective English in order to preserve and convey the story of Asheri's life and death.

Killing a POW ( if that is what he was ) is murder.

Murder is opinion, until it is reporting a verdict of a properly constituted court. (I know some countries have different rules on libel, and it may well be that this case is unlikely to be pursued in that fashion or lead to damages against anyone describing the killers and/or those arrested as murderers, but it seems uncontroversial to wait for a court.

The definition of "murder" is "The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." "Killing" is anything that causes the death of another, e.g., "mercury poisoning killed the infant." To imply that the killing of Eliyahu Asheri could have been accidental, legal, etc., is unmitigated POV. "Murder" is the accurate term. --Leifern 21:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)