Talk:El Capitan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of WikiProject California, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

This article is part of WikiProject Mountains, a project to systematically present information on mountains. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information)

Is El Cap really a mountain? I always thought of it as more of a cliff - the top of the vertical part is just a gentle slope going into the woods. Stan 06:47, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It does have a distinct summit, see [1] -- hike395 15:29, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Heh, OK - one of those summits that's almost visible to the naked eye. :-) Stan 16:24, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It's an honest 40 feet! :-) :-) -- hike395 01:32, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The Google Maps link goes to a map of central China. --Sebbo the Unregistered User in 1990

It's not a mountain, it's a rock formation...technically speaking. Think of it this way...It's no more of a "mountain" than the sides of the Grand Canyon...Yosemite is a valley, not a mountain range. :) Thefleck 06:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Agathla 2 Needs More Information. 3 Removing Todd Skinner paragraph 4 Climbing history POV 5 "Siege tactics"?

[edit] Agathla

Someone removed the edits from the El Capitan article regarding the Navajo name for this feature. I noticed it and thought it deserved a better summary. While it is true that El Capitan's Navajo name is Agathla, in Arizona, this article is about the El Capitan formation in California. Rklawton 23:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs More Information.

Is this an article about Rock Climbing and Base Jumping or is this an article about the rock formation in California known as El Capitan???

There is hardly a single sentence in this atrticle with any meaningful or worth while information about the significant geology of this formation. How did it form? Was it shaped by glaciers? Geochemistry??

History: Who was the first other than Native American to discover this formation? When? Its first appearance in literature?

This article really needs much more academic/scientific information to be included. Can anyone help?

I disagree about the assessment of rock climbing's importance in the history of El Cap, which has been a rock climbing destination for as long as white men have known it. The history of El Cap and the history of rock climbing are deeply intertwined and in no way lacks "scientific" or "academic" meaning. I'll add more about its "discovery" later. I agree though, it would be nice to know more about the geology too. Thefleck 06:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• I've started a Geology section for the page. I've put it towards the bottom, but I think it might be better moved up towards the top; I agree that this article seems waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more interested in rock climbing than in El Capitan itself. --Dcfleck 19:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing Todd Skinner paragraph

I'm removing this because, as written, it has limited relevance to El Capitan, aside from the mention of the Salathe Wall:

"World-renowned free climber Todd Skinner, who had made the the first free ascent of the Salathe Wall in 1988, attempted to pioneer a new climbing route near the Leaning Tower. After completing the day's work on October 23, 2006, Skinner was killed by a 500-foot fall when the belay loop broke on his worn harness as he rapelled down the face." --Dcfleck 18:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Climbing history POV

There are several sentences in the Climbing History section that are both subjective and unsourced. I tried to remove some of them, but was revert by anon editor, who may be a WP newcomer. Let's see if we can either make these sentences less subjective, or attribute them to sources. hike395 16:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I've added sources for the places you've indicated and removed a sentence or two that I thought were subjective. Thanks for the help. If you feel any more sources are necessary or would like any more historical additions feel free to add more indicators or let me know. Thefleck 05:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, we still have some POV problems with the sentences that we've marked. Let's go through them:

• El Capitan is now the standard for Big-Wall Climbing. This is not mentioned anywhere in the GORP article that I can see. An NPOV way of saying this is something like El Capitan is considered the standard for Big-Wall Climbing by notable climbers such as Steve Roper.
• the most popular and historically famous route, mostly because of its sheer length, prominence, and aesthetic beauty, is The Nose .. again, Steve Roper's GORP article does not explicit mention the reason for its fame: he simply says it was "the most obvious" route to Harding. I don't have access to the McNamara (book? article?): does he explicitly talk about the source of the fame of the Nose?
• this is still considered one of the greatest achievements in rock climbing history again, does McNamara explicitly state this? We can NPOV it by saying This is considered by climbers (such as Chris McNamara) to be one of the greatest achievements in rock climbing history.

• innovative climbers from all over the world who seek to test their mettle on its timeless faces. Again, I didn't see this in the Roper article: GORP wants me to register to finish reading the article. (this isn't such a great reference, because of that). Did Roper explicitly say this? Again, we can attribute it to him if so.

Thanks! hike395 07:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we're arguing over semantics. Feel free to "NPOV" them if you see the difference. btw, you can download Chris Mac's topo of The Nose for free here, if you're interested: [2] Thefleck 10:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It's important --- this goes to the basis of the entire Wikipedia effort. I would recommend reading our neutral point of view policy and our verifiability policy to understand.

I'll just delete the sentences, since they still seem subjective and unsupported by sources.

hike395 18:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Siege tactics"?

Could someone define/describe the term 'siege tactics' as it relates to rock climbing? The term is used in the article without explanation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dcfleck (talk • contribs) 14:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC).