Talk:Edible salt

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
Chemicals WikiProject
Portal:Chemistry
 Chemistry Portal
Edible salt is within the scope of WikiProject Chemicals, a daughter project of WikiProject Chemistry, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of chemicals. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.

Article Grading: The article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article..
Edible salt is included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection, or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version. Please maintain high quality standards and, if possible, stick to GFDL-compatible images.

Contents

[edit] Initial Comments

Unrefined sea salt that is obtained from the seawater, has 84 chemical elements and is much healthier than refined salt.

What is the reference for that fact? Thue | talk 12:21, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've NPOV-flagged the article, as there seems to be a strong pro-sea-salt, anti-table-salt bias in this article (notice the comments about aluminium: what about the aluminum in sea salt?). -- Anon.

entire coast of the Atlantic was deserted and the whole Europe was thrown into a Dark Age' '. Where is the evidence for this? What *is* the Atlantic coast of Europe - the west coasts of Ireland and Portugal?

Feel free to edit the article in any way you see fit. --Eleassar777 13:18, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Removed from the article for fact-checking:

According to the historian Henri Pirenne (Economic and Social History of Medieval Europe), during the High Middle Ages, the entire coast of the Atlantic was deserted and the whole Europe was thrown into a Dark Age of human under-development. It is supposed to be caused mainly by the lack of salt in the human diet, because all salt flats along the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean sea were flooded. The salt famine lasted almost 500 years, and many people died from dehydration and madness. Henri Pirenne claimed that the lack of salt went so far that human flesh was sold on the open-air markets and many people were so crazed that, to replenish their salt, drank blood from the neck artery of the person they had just slain. The rulers of the Medieval Europe grabbed the oportunity and exacted enormous salt taxes.

If true, this would be an astonishing and important part of European history. However, I went to school long after Pirenne's death, and there was nothing in my history books even remotely resembling this; nor have I read anything similar since until now, although I am quite familiar with less dramatic phenomena like salt roads and salt taxes. Was this really Pirenne's view? Does anyone else hold this view? Is there any evidence for this? -- The Anome 13:27, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Looking this up on the Web finds several cites from apparently dubious sources. Still searching for a proper cite. On the other hand, salt famine does seem to be a real concept -- just not this one, apparently. -- The Anome 13:32, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Can someone give more detail as to how the structure of salt changes when it is heated, and what the effects of this are? --User: 199.46.198.231, 21 Mar 2005

[edit] popcorn salt

Anyone know what tricalcium phosphate is for? I found this on the ingredients list for Morton's "popcorn salt." Not sure why anyone would need a separate salt for popcorn. --Tokek 04:34, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Tricalcium phosphate is a strongly hygroscopic chemical that—by absorbing water—helps prevent the salt from caking or forming chunks. At low concentrations it's quite harmless; it's a big part of what bones and teeth are made of, actually. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 00:12, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)


      • Popcorn Salt is extremely fine, perhaps because this makes it stick to the popcorn. (I prefer it at all times to regular, coarser salt, because it seems to taste saltier.) Also, it comes in flavored varieties, such as cheese, garlic, etc. More precise info found here: http://www.amazon.com/Wabash-Valley-Farms-Popcorn-Salt/dp/B00017LF24 (See Product Description paragraph.)69.253.25.5 16:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)KHT


Cayman Sea Salt seems to be an ad: A google date range search (somewhat broken feature) produces only ~250 results before from jan 2000 to jan 2005. There seems to be nothing inherently notable about the salt other than the production technique, which should already be covered.

Also: I'd like to see an article about salt, superstition, and religion. Maybe even a sentence about how ants and certain other insects won't cross a line of salt.

[edit] NPOV and cleanup

I've tried to clean up most of the article. I think I've removed most of the pro-sea salt slant while still retaining balance; I welcome further comments. There was some duplication in the article, which I've removed. The history section still needs massaging, however. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 02:22, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unusual Issues

1. Toxicity of edible salt -- What is a dangerous amount of salt to ingest at one time? Is this too strange of a question? I read in Rotten by J.Rotten that 3 big spoons of salt is dangerous. I can't find my copy of the book at this time.

2. In Japan and Korea it can be difficult to find table salt per se. It is very humid for half the year. It is very easy to find soy sauce, however. Salt can typically only be found in the form of soy sauce, in other words. This is more or less hearsay, however; I can't really imagine myself researching this. I suppose a native Asian could sort this question out rather quickly. And, does it belong in this article? I would vote yes.

McDogm 28 Apr 2005 0257 est usa

To answer the first question, the MSDS for sodium chloride shows an oral LDLO of 1000 mg/kg in humans. In other words, the lowest reported lethal dose of salt is 1 gram of salt per kilogram of body weight. For a 70 kg human (about 150 lbs), that's 70 grams of salt...about two or three table spoons taken all at once. On the other hand, that's very much a lower limit. Most people would just find that highly unpleasant, but not fatal. In animal tests, the oral LD50 (the dose required to kill 50% of exposed animals) is up around 3 or 4 grams per kilogram: half a pound of salt. It would be rather difficult to ingest that much salt at once; you'd probably vomit most of it right back up. --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 12:10, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Given that Japan is surrounded by ocean and Korea nearly so, I would say salt is not rare. Korea makes it own salt via evaporation but 80% of it now comes from China. I assume similarly for Japan. 65.32.175.202 14:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect part?

I think the part about 'anti-caking agents' must be incorrect: usually salt is more hygroscopic than the anti-caking agent which has limited ability to absorb water anyway. Usually, the mode of action is that of a crystal habit modifier: after absorption AND evaporation of water, salt grains recrystallize forming lumps. The crystal habit modifier - like its name suggests - modifies the crystallization so that no lumps will form.

[edit] What about the taste?

This article need something about taste and cooking.

[edit] How Vital is Salt in the Diet?

This statement in the article should explain what the deleterious effects of lack of salt are: ". . . The deleterious health effects of the exclusive use of rock salt are similar to the effects of the total lack of salt in one's diet. . . ." Sodium--organically bonded in food molecules, in contrast to inorganic sodium atoms in salt--is available from meat and vegetables in a proper diet.

There is a lack of info on health effects. What info there is is largely from salt manufacturers, and I've made these sources clearer. They may well be right, but more info and more independent sources are needed. Perhaps we should flag the article:
This article is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.
Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if you can.
Academics line up to defend salt, from the salt lobby, would be one starting point, though having a handful of academics on side doesn't mean the argument is correct. --Singkong2005 12:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
There is indisputable evidence that salt is required (see Sodium-Potassium Pump for an example of how crucial sodium is to cellular metabolic processes. In large quantities, especially if the person has a history of high blood pressure, sodium can aggravate that condition; it should be consumed in lower quantities as advised by a medical professional. However, no reputable medical doctor would say that salt could be safely eliminated from the diet. Nimur 04:13, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Density question

What is the density of table salt (in grams per cubic centimeter)?

It's roughly equal to that of pure sodium chloride. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 00:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from History of Edible Salt in the US

Wouldn't that make more sense as a section in this article? Avi 19:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd say no, that article is too specific to be of any major use. Rather an article on history on edible salt that would deal with human use of salt throughout history would be useful (So, the section should be split up and expanded into an article of its own). Would that article be incorporated into the section, we'd end up with a {{globalize}} tag. An article on salt in history in its broadest sense though is another matter. Scoo 21:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I think: rename History of salt in the United States to History of salt (Trade in there somewhere ??) and merge the history sections of this and Sodium Chloride, Salt into it. i.e. make a History of Salt article from all the pieces? Wizzy 17:15, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I came across this again - OK to do this ? Wizzy 20:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

OK - finished. Wizzy…☎ 14:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Health effects (& how much is too much?)

The Health effects section is filling out a little, which is good. It would be good to address the quantity of what is a healthy amount of salt in the diet. Obviously there would be different viewpoints to describe. --Singkong2005 03:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


I feel there should be a section of the difference between salt and sodium as discussed in this article: Cooking Light - Sodium I feel people use the two words interchangabley, but should not because salt is only 40% sodium. Calimatthew 18:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


Also the medical condition of hypernatremia is mentioned but not hyponatremia. I don't fell expert enough to mess with health/medicine stuff but I feel strongly that this should be included. ----69.228.96.138 18:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rocks?

The article says one of the few rocks humans eat. This may be a weird question, but what are the other rocks? Astrophil 18:14, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Chalk (in antacids), perhaps. -- Avi 19:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I was just about to post the same question:-). If the only other "rocks" that we eat are chalk in antacids then it would probally be fair to add a "very" i.e. "Edible salt ... one of the very few rocks humans eat". Also its not clear to me that we "eat" antacids, they are not food, rather we take them, they are medisain.--JK the unwise 10:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
A promo on Food TV mentioned salt as the only rock humans eat FWIW Wubb 03:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Any objection to changing the lead to "...the only rock that humans eat"?--JK the unwise 17:46, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps too categorical - see Pica (disorder). —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

How about "...the only rock that is commonly eaten by humans"?--JK the unwise 09:43, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:56, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Ice qualifies as a mineral. It probably doesn't qualify as a food, but it is eaten.

[edit] Move proposal

I propose a move of this article from Edible salt to Table salt because "table salt" is much more popular. See Google Fight between "edible salt" vs. "table salt". If nobody objects in a week, then I'll tag Table salt for speedy deletion (CSD G6) and move Edible salt there once the admin deletes it. -- King of Hearts | (talk) 02:16, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Since Table salt is a sub-section that would seem to imply that the article covers edible salts other then table salt.--JK the unwise 09:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
The two are not exact synonyms, so a Google fight is irrelevant. Salt used in preservation, curing, or food packing is arguably not 'table salt'. I think the current article title is better. —Michael Z. 2006-03-15 17:24 Z
Support - no they're not exact synonyms, but table salt can be treated as a subsection, and it keeps it simpler. --Singkong2005 15:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Object - as per JK the unwise and Michael 16:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits

Wow, looks good! I did accidentally lose/miss a couple of references and I am glad they have been reinstated. There's one spot I'm a bit confused about, though: [1] I think, now that the article is more balanced, it currently makes a case for the idea that some people need to decrease their salt intake, some need to increase it, and some need not mess with it. Right? This statement sounds to me like it's saying that no one needs to decrease their salt intake. And plus, as an encyclopedia I'm not sure we should be giving direct health advice anyway. ;)

Also, I am wondering if we need all three pictures at the top. Isn't the salt shaker enough? (We also have the single serving package farther down.)

It's been a while since I've edited much (as evidenced by my screwing up the references -- thanks again), so I'm going to be a little less bold than usual and wait a couple of days for comments before doing anything again. If no one says anything, I will change these two things. Jacqui★ 19:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jacqui.
  • "…some need to increase it…" It's highly unlikely that a typical person in an advanced economy needs to increase intake as you get enough through diet and the body can cope well with any fluctuations. Continual salt deficiency might be a problem in Africa perhaps. Possible new topic?
  • What's the exact sentence that's worrying you?
  • Wikipedia ahouldn't give health advice because Wikipedia is highly unreliable, particularly on health issues where some contributors have an axe to grind or a commercial interest in a particular viewpoint. The most Wikipedia can do is point people to sources that are reliable.
  • Don't have strong views about the photos: they might appeal to children who use WikipediaNunquam Dormio 12:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Some clarifications:
This is the sentence I was a bit concerned about (please see the above link to see where it occurs): "Salt substitutes are unnecessary though some people might find them helpful." For some people, aren't they necessary? And even if not, doesn't this count as health advice?
BTW, you're talking to a "typical person in an advanced economy" who needed to increase her salt intake. Well, I guess we need to discuss what "typical" is. Is a person with a medical condition, however mild, considered "untypical" somehow? Most people have one medical condition or another, right? Well, some of them have to do with a lack of salt. This is mentioned in the article :) Jacqui★ 16:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I did a lot of editing today. However, while all of the reference numbers work, I think there's something up with the numbering, but unfortunately I can't figure out how to fix it! Jacqui★ 16:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The named reference needs to precede those that refer to it. So < ref name=yogi >reference details< /ref > first and < ref name=yogi/ > afterwards Nunquam Dormio 17:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi - did some editing, added a photo of a chinese salt well brine boiler. BTW - I noticed in the "Unrefined Salts" there are other types of edible unrefined salts missing such as pickling salts (which aren't sea salts) that didn't seem to be included. Phreakster 1998 19:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why?

Which are the characteristics of salt? and how it affect the body? (not the consecuences, I already understand that, i mean why the body can't absorb all the salt)

how salt affects in the absorbtion of water?

[edit] Iodide or iodate?

Can anybody in US look at the ingredents list and stat which salt is used for iodising? In germany iodate is used.--Stone 13:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../e/d/i/Talk%7EEdible_salt_37d6.html"