Talk:Economy of the People's Republic of China

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[edit] Article needs updating

I read a some random pieces from the article and under trade and services it says "Average tariff rates on key U.S. agricultural exports will drop from 31% to 14% in 2004 and on industrial products from 25% to 9% by 2005." Please revise the article and update facts if necessary for a more up to date article. thanks JJB 15:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Top

The Chinese economy has been one of the fastest growing ones in the world throughout the last twenty-five years. This is largely due to the allowance of limited and specified privatization of businesses in the Chinese market sector. When Mao Zedong and the Communist Party took control of China in 1949 private businesses were outlawed and large landowners were forced to surrender their land to the government. Chairman Mao Zedong implemented CPC ideological programs such as the Great Leap Forward which were designed to dismantle the bourgeoisie to instead cause equality among the classes, specifically in regards to economic and social roles. Chairman Mao’s initiatives did cause a kind of equality to emerge in China, but it was not one in which all the inhabitants of China benefited. Contrarily, many of them suffered extreme poverty and greatness was lost in the realms of academia, science, and technology which hindered China’s ability to become a modern nation capable of interacting on the global scale.

Chinese policy changed after Deng Xiaoping took control in 1977 after Mao’s death. Deng Xiaoping succeeded him although he possessed different views than those of Mao’s – especially in regards to economic matters. Deng Xiaoping believed that it was necessary for China to embrace a more free market system so that it could recover economically from some of Mao’s policies under the Great Leap Forward. The Great Leap Forward was meant to promote industry by mandating that most people leave other professions (such as farming) to become industrialists on an equal and communal level. Mao thought it was very important to show the world that China could produce the most steel in the world, but the final product was not one of quality and therefore was essentially useless. Because of his insistence that people devote their efforts to the communal industry that ultimately failed, China faced great economic hardships in addition to possessing a large food disparity due to the focus on industry which caused many farms to be neglected and perish and climate conditions that when combined with the neglect caused a great famine in China in 1961. Deng, contrarily, allowed people to once again own land and businesses which resulted in many of the government’s collective farm and industry programs to be stopped.

Deng Xiaoping also allowed for loans to be given to some state supported businesses. He also encouraged citizens to invest in these companies and to work hard by allowing a system of incentives to be developed for hard work. As a result of embracing slightly capitalistic principles, China was able to begin the reconstruction of its economy. Despite many governmental controls that were still in place on industry and trade, China’s economy began to flourish and Deng began promoting modern industrialization as well. China has continued to stay true to being a socialist state because it still regulates lending, especially to private companies which still often find it difficult to obtain credit or a loan for their ventures. In 2003 President Jiang Zemin did for the first time since the Communist Party took control of China entertain the idea of allowing private entrepreneurs to exist in China.

Despite the many regulations that still exist today in China – primarily for the purpose of maintaining the large number of jobs that state owned companies provide – China has proven to be one of the global leaders for economic growth as it accounted for 1/3 of the total global growth. The Chinese government reported that that its official GDP growth rate was 9.7% in 2003 although other global economists believe it to be potentially as high as 13%. The Chinese government, although pleased to be a global competitor and manufacturer, does not want to completely succumb to capitalistic elements and also does not want to risk the problems that rapid inflation could induce. The Chinese government is currently is continuing to implement the plans discussed in the 15th National Congress of the CPC which is devoted to the strengthening and monitoring of the socialist market economy system.

[edit] "China"/"PRC" vs. "mainland China" for page titles

Following the long discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) regarding proper titling of Mainland China-related topics, polls for each single case has now been started here. Please come and join the discussion, and cast your vote. Thank you. — Insta ntnood 14:49, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by Huaiwei and SchmuckyTheCat

Huaiwei modified the page by adding reference to Hong Kong and Macao. SchmuckyTheCat slightly revised the wordings of Huaiwei's edits. The edits are now reverted, pending to discussions. — Insta ntnood 07:04, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

My edits to this page and Economy of China were done to show Ran how it can be presented as per Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Chinese)/NPOV/China_or_PRC_vs._mainland_China, considering he complains that this format gives the impression that the two SARs are not part of the PRC. You can hold on to your horses in this one.--Huaiwei 10:51, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Your proposal on how the page can be revised should be done on your personal name space, or at the sandbox. An 8-digit number is generated as a unique url to each edit, and you can provide a hyperlink to the url in the discussion. You shouldn't have changed the page that is disputed with no consensus. — Insta ntnood 16:29, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dragon chips

i couldn't find anything about these 'dragon' chips that are supposedly to take on the likes of intel and AMD, could someone find some info on it? and also clarrify what they are? it says "chips" but perhaps it should be "micro-processors" -=shrewd.user=- - 203.26.24.212 07:11, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Is this what you are looking for? :-) — Insta ntnood 08:09, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
That isn't what he's looking for and Motorola isn't a Chinese company. [1] He's looking for that, I don't know whether we have an article on it. SchmuckyTheCat 13:35, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

That's terrible.. :-) — Insta ntnood 15:15, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

It's an old article. They may be still developing it in which case it could easily be 3 or 4 times as fast. It's also my understanding that they are MIPS "compatible" in a way that doesn't require a license. But as a RISC design, it gets more done per clock anyways (compared to x86). It's also my understanding that they aren't to compete with intel/AMD but more to jumpstart a native CPU design industry that doesn't require patent and licensing fees to US/German/Taiwan/Japanese companies (and to have a homegrown CPU in their military hardware...). I should put this on my to-do list to research them and write an article. Remind me sometime. SchmuckyTheCat 20:37, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Sure. — Insta ntnood 21:54, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

A new article on dragon chips has been created by user:Pravit726. — Insta ntnood 21:52, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Poverty

0% of popoltion is below poverty line, not 10%. In the communists states not exist poverty. - 82.55.217.48 14:22, October 6, 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...I am curious about the statistics, too,especially the unemployment rate.-nonsense

Lets try to avoid the sarcasm. Perhaps some measure of both international and official government standards of poverty should be compared side by side, but I'm not sure where to get this data. -A.rod (21:40 8 October 2005(UTC))

[edit] Introduction changes

I have changed the introduction to place the basic facts about the economy in the opening sentence. This conforms more with standard articles on regional developing economies such as the economy of Africa and the economy of India, which were both featured articles. -A.rod (21:40 8 October 2005(UTC))

[edit] Concern over official statistics

What are others thoughts on including information on some people's concern over the official figures released by the PRC government? See these articles:

TastyCakes 21:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I heard somewhere that GDP is underreported because so much of the service industry isn't included. TastyCakes 08:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, the Chinese government just discovered that it's economy is 17% larger than previously thought(due to undereporting in the service sector). It seems that the 2004 GDP was actually $2.0 trillion rather than $1.65 trillion.--Todd Kloos 11:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GDP vs GDP PPP

I realize that only GDP PPP is shown on the CIA factbook, but is there an actual GDP value somewhere? I've always thought PPP was a fairly flaky metric... I think normal GDP (ie non adjusted) should be included in the overview template. TastyCakes 16:39, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

See the lists of countries by nominal GDP and by nominal GDP per capita. :-D — Insta ntnood 21:43, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll add these TastyCakes 22:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm a wikipedia voyeur, don't know how is the right way to update something so if I'm breaking some rule excuse me. Last december, PRC's National Bureau of Statistics updated GDP growth rate of the last 10 years: http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2006/01/09/afx2435782.html It would be great that some editor created a table of the growing rates for the last years as they are provided in this link. Xie xie nin.

[edit] Tourism Industry in China

I think a section on the tourism industry in China would be great.--Sir Edgar 02:06, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

There's actually an article on tourism in China, but its geographical frame is pretty uncertain. You may already know there have been consistent disagreements over these matters. — Insta ntnood 19:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GDP= wealth?

I think some people overestimate the importance of GDP. The rapid growth of GDP does not necessarily means the increase of wealth, and it may be triggered by many factors like overinvestment. For now PRC has provided "very nice labor", and it will always provide the same in the future, which sadly the government is very proud of. -observer

Please stick to editing grammar, and leave the economics to us or expert sources. Overinvestment cannot possibly influence Chinese GDP growth to the level we have seen today. 128.135.96.15 19:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

- - - - [[4]] check out this on chinese labour shortage. You'll find that contradicts what you have said here.

Disagree investment does not automatically add up to GDP, GDP is about production, only utilizing the investment well can lead to increase in GDP. Plus, PRC should be proud for providing labors because it provides jobs for people. I dont get your "provide the same" clause because everyday, CHinese workers' producviities increase. Ten years ago, they make mostly low-end items. Today, HDTVs, Xbox 360s and complicated machineries are mostly made in China.

[edit] Trade with Russia

I added this unde rtrade section if anyone wants to re write it or polish the text then feel free to do that

Trade volume between China and Russia reached $29.1 billion in 2005, an increase of 37.1 percent compared with 2004

China’s export of machinery and electronic goods to Russia grew 70 percent, which is 24 percent of China’s total export to Russia in the first 11 months of 2005. During the same time, China’s export of high-tech products to Russia increased by 58 percent, and that is 7 percent of China’s total exports to Russia. Also in this time period border trade between the two countries reached $5.13 billion, growing 35 percent and accounting for nearly 20 percent of the total trade. Most of China’s exports to Russia remain apparel and footwear.

Russia is China’s eighth largest trade partner and China is now Russia’s fourth largest trade partner, and

China now has over 750 investment projects in Russia, involving $1.05 billion. China’s contracted investment in Russia totaled $368 million during January-Spetember of 2005, twice that in 2004.

Chinese imports from Russia are mainly those of energy sources, such as crude oil, which is mostly transported by rail, and electricity exports from neighboring Siberian and Far Eastern regions. In the near future, exports of both of these commodities are set to increase, as Russia is building a giant pipeline to Pacific Ocean with a branch to Chinese border, and Russian power grid monopoly UES is building some of its hydropower stations with a view of future exports to China.

Facts are from here

http://www.mosnews.com/money/2006/01/12/chinesetrade.shtml

Deng 08.25, 15 January 2006 CET

[edit] Trading Blocs

I'll wait for consensus on this, but I think that we should list the trading agreements/blocs that China is party to or a member of.

Given that arguably FTAs and trading blocs aren't Trade Organisations, anyone got any ideas on where to put this info? Ophelia 03:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Check this out: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Chinas-economy Either NationMaster has stolen it from Wiki, or Wiki has stolen it from Nationmaster. I'm adding it to the references section for now; if NationMaster stole it without reference, then I have no clue who's supposed to be adressing that. Ophelia 06:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accounts for 3/4 of all people lifted out of poverty?

I read a claim by someone on the internet who said that "Since opening its economy in 1978, China has accounted for three-quarters of all the people in the world lifted out of abject poverty! ". This can't possibly be true can it? There is nothing in the wiki to say so. The original claim is here http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=30673&extra=&page=11

en...well..at least 200 millions Chinese are lifted out of poverty by economic reforms (over 100 millions are still in poverty however)

[edit] oil consumption and production figures

as of this edit, the consumption figures are for 2002 and the production ones are for 2003. According to this article (http://www.adb.org/Documents/News/2004/nr2004118.asp) oil consumption increased by 9% in 2003. The numbers should move in tandem as much as possible.

From the same article, the PRC's use of double the oil per $1000 of GDP compared to other asian economies is of note and a significant issue in today's global energy markets. The PRC doesn't seem to want to advertise this too clearly but calculating back from articles like this (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-03/26/content_552298.htm) and you can pretty easily determine that retail gasoline products are being subsidized by 40-50%, explaining a significant amount of the PRC's outstanding economic competitiveness in certain sectors.

[edit] Unemployment

The previous figure wasn't appropriate, as it didn't include rural unemployment. I used the 20% figure that was mentioned in the 2004 official Chinese journal. Also added public debt figure. John Smith's 14:45, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Helo John, if you are still here, or if anyone else knows. Can you provide a reference to the 2004 official chinese journal you mentioned? As others had pointed out, that figure seem rather sureal. Thanks. Yongke 09:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Now here's something interesting that'll shut all the euro/amero-commies up...

According to a survey by University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes reported by Wall Street Journal Asia:

“

In a poll conducted for the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes between June and August last year, fully 74% of Chinese citizens said they agreed with the statement "the free enterprise system and free market economy is the best system on which to base the future of the world." The Philippines, at 73%, and the U.S., at 71%, were second and third.

”

Unfortunately, I don't know where to put this... -- Миборо в ский 05:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] looking for Chinese industry or whatever

This article could use some "related topics" or whatever at the bottom, which link to other wikipedia articles... is there something similar to "Chinese industry" Tks Ling.Nut 13:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revised GDP growth in 2005

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=2373863 GDP growth in 2005 revised up to 10.2%

[edit] Yuan exchange before 1980

Can someone include the exchange rate of Yuan to the US Dollar during 1950-80? I strongly suspect it to be fixed at 1.50

It was. In those days, China was isolated. So the exchange rate didn't mean 1.5 yuan = 1 dollar in value, if one wants to buy goods from US, he had to pay US dollar. Just like today's north korea. That is why GDP during 1950-80 caculated in US dollar doesn't mean anything.

[edit] Inflation over last 10 years

I couldn't see much discussion of the reasons behind the inflation rates recorded over the last 10 or 15 years. In the early to mid 1990s, inflation was over 15% and real GDP growth at over 10%. Yet, in the last five years, inflation is apparently negligible (around 0) and real GDP growth at around 8%. Is it only this relatively lower GDP growth rate that has led to MUCH lower inflation or are there other factors involved? Perhaps, has there been increased investment to increase the economy's capacity thus reducing demand-push on prices? ANy explanation here, or better, in the article would be appreciated. regards --Merbabu 15:51, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] China’s "Leninist Corporatism"

Any comments about the recent book by Will Hutton, The Writing Is on the Wall, regarding his contention that the present party-controlled economy threatens economic stability and suppresses democratic reforms [5], and the counter by Meghnad Desai? [6]. This would see to deserve mention, or at least a link, in this article. Not being a regular contributor to this article, I defer to the established group of editors here for guidance. - Ryanjo 15:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I haven't read the book myself, however I don't really think they are relevant enough for this page though. Look at it this way, which section would should this go under? Criticism? If you want, I think a page about the book them selfs would be good. Anyone agree/disagree? Yongke 21:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agriculture

There are 1 billion Chinese farmers <-- This is obviously untrue considering the total work force is 778 million, and less than 1/2 of the workforce works in agriculture. 75.22.81.171 09:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I corrected the statement. Please add new talk topics at the bottom of the existing ones (see the talkheader). - Ryanjo 03:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

This page has received a large amount of vandalism in a small amount of time. Some errors are still on the page and need to be found. Shotmenot 14:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there a Labor Shortage in China?

I don't think so. A report on March 2007 ^[7] cited the words from Tian Chengping, the Minister of Labor and Social Security who stated that "there would be 24 million new urban job-seekers on the market this year, but the government would only be able to find jobs for half of them." and "he admitted some sectors of the economy faced staff shortages". It seems to me that the so called labor shortage is only occuring in some sectors, or a regional phenomenon, e.g., in Guangdong province, where the salary level has not changed much since 15 years ago. There is no labor shortage on the country level. Sinolonghai 15:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

No, of course not, but local shortages may result in rising wages and improvement of working conditions in those areas. This is a broad worldwide movement as globalization (the flat world) results in pressures towards equality. In relationship to China's economy this phenomenon is significant as it both reduces the differential costs between Chinese manufacturing and the rest of the world and delivers a better life to Chinese workers. It also encourages broader development as manufacturers locate in areas where there is less of a shortage. This would seem to be a healthy development. Fred Bauder 17:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, of course yes. Labor shortage became a well known problem at 2003 in Guangdong, and quickly expanded to other provinces while at the same time getting worse very year in Guangdong. But you may already know that Chinese officers are used to deny problems because of political reason.

Unemployment and labor shortage exist at the same time in China, both issue are very serious. So yes or no may be too simple to answer the question.

Chinese high technical and service sectors are weak, so there are not enough jobs for young men who have finished high education. Because Chinese universities and colleges have much more students then before, it is very hard for a student to find a job. And some collapsed national owned companies cause many older workers to loose their jobs too. Finally, because of high market pressure, many family companies have been shut down ( reported by government reports), their employees has the same problem. The most extreme job shortage problem happens when government want to hire new employees, most time there are many people apply for one position, it is not rare to see one job with more then 3000 rivals( I am not joking).

On the other hand, Chinese booming manufacturing industry needs more and more cheap workers, but the number of young Chinese has reduced sharply because of the one-child policy, and many of them now go to university instead of starting work young. Since factories favor young, undereducated boys and girls, they face big labor shortage problem, especially in richer provinces like Guangdong, which haven't raise manufacturing workers' salary enough for almost 20 years. This is what the minister called "some sectors of the economy", but still he was not telling the whole story. While there are some remote places which still have many poor young men, many so called "over population" provinces have run out of cheap human resource. My home town is deep in center China, which exports human resource for decades. its economy just began to boom in recent year, this is partly caused by the labor shortage. But many factories can't find enough workers, in my uncle's factory, more then half of machines are idle, and I can see many new built big factories face bigger problem. Local TV station broadcast workers seeking AD all day, but since you can hardly find a young man in local rural area ( except Chinese new year), they now have to go to poorer regions to find workers. My hometown is not a rare case, some of my friends' hometown face this problem even earlier then us. Sorry may be this is not reliable way to get information, but Chinese medium offer little information about this, so you have to go around yourself to find what is happening.

You can see the minister insist there are 24 million new "urban job-seekers", but he didn't tell you this job-seekers are college students or young farmers from rural area. While college students( who are not willing or not suitable to work in a factory) can hardly find a decent job, factories can't find enough workers at the same time. This is (part of) the whole story. The officers always insisted China only lack "elite manufacturing workers", who are supposed to do physical work or operate machines better then normal workers, and blame Chinese colleges failed to educate this type of worker.

Indeed worker's salary are almost the same for 20 years in Guangdong, it just began to raise sharply in recent years, and new booming regions record even sharper raise. Many factories offer better work condition even if no one can force them to(because there isn't real labor union in China). If labor shortage is not a BIG problem, why they do this?

But at the same time, collage students get less salary then 5 years ago, because they can't find a job easily.

Summary: China lacks jobs for well educated, older workers. This problem may be resolved when China get stronger in high technique and service sectors. But Chinese manufacturing factories which depend on undereducated young workers face labor shortage, and this problem can be worse when young men getting fewer even quicker (thanks to the one-child policy), and the economy continues booming. Purpureleaf 12:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Land ownership

This blog entry remarks:

Consider that China essentially has no real estate market (the government owns all the land in China, and grants leases to home owners for up to 75 years).

If accurate, that would make the basis of an interesting section for this article. -- Beland 21:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this also relates to the problem of uncompensated confiscation of farming land to build factories by local officials. Fred Bauder 17:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

No it is 70 years. Recently the government offer a "solution" : the home owner can buy the home again after 70 years, and his children can own the house for ever if they update their ownership every 70 years. But it is not clear how much the owner have to pay again. This is considered by someone a good step since some of them feared that the government will drive their sons out 70 years later.Purpureleaf 12:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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