Talk:ECA stack
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Ephedrine acts to increase energy by its actions as a symptomimetic amine. It increases dopamine and noradrenaline levels in the brain, and also serves as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
Is ephedrine really a dopamine reuptake inhibitor?
-- Yes, AFAIK, all phenethylamines are due to the related uptake action for dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline. As ephedrine binds at noradrenaline receptors that also transport dopamine, the effect is less than cocaine or amphetamine, but still seems to be present. I've included two references that should help clarify this.
Ok, answered my own questions here. The thermogenic effect is ultimately due to the action of the noradrenaline, rather than any direct effect of the ephedrine on beta-3 receptors, as l-ephedrine, the kind sold OTC, has little beta-3 agonist activity.
I emailled Dr. Wellman, author of the study comparing various stimulants' thermogenic properties in human BAT. Unfortunately, while this study is not fully available online (just the abstract), he told me the results were that d-pseudoephedrine had three times less thermogenic activity as l-ephedrine.
I assume that ephedrine increases the body temperature by 2 degrees Fahrenheit, but shouldn't this be spelled out?
Ephedrine was NEVER banned in the United States, Ephedra was. I think it is important to make this distinction in the article. The stack was most commonly "built" with Ma Hung or similar standardized for 25mg ephedrine alkaloids. The ban was for supplements on dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids. Volksgeist 14:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
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- I've made a couple small changes to the page. Ephedrine was never banned and can legally be purchased with (or without) an expectorant. For example D&E Pharm sells pure Ephedrine HCL, although you must show ID to purchase. Ephedrine has always been able to be legally purchased OTC in products such as Bronchaid. Many companies that sell "bodybuilding" products started selling Ephedrine HCL (with an expectorant) -- such as VasoPro and BioTek. Although the ephedra ban was lifted I've seen very few products still being sold that contain ephedra alkaloids (most likely because of the fear of lawsuits). Volksgeist 14:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] fahrenheit/celsius?
I assume that ephedrine increases the body temperature by 2 degrees Fahrenheit, but shouldn't this be spelled out?
You can still purchase ephedra at http://www.thatswholesale.com if you have any doubts.
[edit] Tags
This article seems to downplay some of the risks of ephedrine/caffeine, and doesn't mention that it's been shown to be ineffective for long-term weight loss in a few studies. Also, it really needs to cite sources. Hence the tags. MastCell 19:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, this article suggests a lot of really questionable things, like using pseudoephedrine or asthma medication to get around the FDA's ephedra ban, and claims "great effectiveness" (which is false) and minimizes the side effects. Needs a major rewrite and is even potentially dangerous. MastCell 19:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
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- The article states there's a "great deal of evidence" that ECA is effective (without providing a reference, of course). I'm not aware of a great deal of evidence - there are a number of small, older studies looking at short-term weight loss. The largest meta-analysis of ephedra (not ECA) didn't find evidence that it was effective for long-term weight loss or performance enhancement. I'd just like to see a citation for this statement, because I'm not sure it's correct. MastCell 17:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] pseudoephedrine
The article states: "ephedra (an herb which contains both ephedrine and pseudoephedrine)..."
I do not believe the herb ephedra contains pseudoephedrine. As its "pseudo" name would imply, I believe that, by definition, pseudoephedrine is a synthetic version of the naturally occuring substance ephedrine, and does not occur naturally in any substance, herbal or otherwise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.199.66.14 (talk) 16:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC).
No, ephedra contains ephedrine, pseudoephedrine and N-methylephedrine as it's main alkaloids. The pseudo- prefix has nothing to do with whether something is synthetic or not. In chemisty, pseudo is used to denote a stereoisomer of a substance that has no trivial name. Pseudoephedrine is a stereoisomer of ephedrine (the threo isomer, ephedrine is the erytho isomer). There is no such thing as a "synthetic version" as both a natural substance and the same substance made synthetically are chemically identical. 1.1.1 01:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
