Talk:Ebisu (mythology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of the Japanese mythology WikiProject, which aims to improve and expand Wikipedia's coverage of Japanese mythology. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale.

[edit] Page title

As of the end of WWII, the Japanese language no longer uses the sound "ye"; the kana has been eliminated from regular usage. Thus, Yebisu has become Ebisu. I do not wish to insist on moving the page, but a wonder if a discussion should be begun, as to how to deal with this issue in other names. For example, Kannon vs. Kwannon. LordAmeth 14:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Just curious, why did they stop using the sound "ye"? --Hottentot 00:08, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't know, actually. I think it was simply part of an overall simplification of the language. A number of other sounds/kana, like the 'kwa' in Kwannon, were eliminated too. More can be found at historical kana usage. It looks interesting; I don't have a chance to read it right now, but I'm going to have to get around to it at some point. LordAmeth 12:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

That wasn't a change in the language, just in the way it was spelled. There has been no distinction between Ye and E since the Heian period. During the Tokugawa era (and still to this day in some parts of Japan), the pronunciation Ye was standard instead of E, hence spellings like Yen and Iyeyasu. Kwa had merged with Ka in most dialects centuries ago as well, and the spelling was made to fit the pronunciation. It's much like how English still keeps letters representing sounds that haven't been pronounced in centuries, like with Knight. Nik42 06:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the beer is still called "Yebisu". ;-) MikeDockery 14:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

We should probably move the page to Ebisu (currently a redirect to Ebisu, Tokyo) and set Yebisu up as a redirect. We also need a Ebisu (disambiguation), where we can put the last two comments about the district in Tokyo and the beer. It would probably begin, "Ebisu, sometimes spelled Yebisu, may refer to:". I don't know which meaning is more common in Japan nowadays, though, the god or the district. If it's the latter, then this page should be at Episu (god), and Ebisu should be the disambiguation page. — BrianSmithson 14:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

In Japan, Yebisu (the beer - it's always spelled using the "Y" in romanji) is definitely the most common usage - in the Kanto area, (the Tokyo / Yokohama / Chiba area), Ebisu the place in Tokyo (spelled with the "E" in romanji) is probably almost as common. Ebisu / Yebisu (both are still used) the god is normally only seen around New Year's...except for his representation on the beer bottle, of course. ;-) I suggest we set up the spelling Ebisu as the place in Tokyo, and set up Yebisu as the beer (I'm sure there's lots of information on the Japanese site for both the beer and the place in Tokyo - if we can talk someone into translating it for us). Both should be disambiguated to each other, too, and both can be disambiguated to either Yebisu or Ebisu the god. MikeDockery 16:57, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem with leaving Ebisu as only the place in Tokyo is that most place names on Wikipedia include a comma plus the next biggest geopolitical entity. For example, Boston, Massachusetts, or Ann Street, Boston. For that reason, I'd suggest leaving Ebisu, Tokyo, where it is. So let's outline this: 1) Yebisu becomes a stub about the brand of beer. 2) Ebisu, Tokyo, remains where it is. 3) Information about the god goes to Ebisu (mythology) (or Ebisu (god), but most of the Greco-Roman deities use (mythology) to disambiguate)). 4) Ebisu becomes a disambiguation page. 5) Yebisu gets a disambiguation statement at the top that points to Ebisu. That work? — BrianSmithson 16:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

...and all of the pages have a disambig. link at the top to the Ebisu page. Sounds perfect! MikeDockery 03:04, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Done! — BrianSmithson 03:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)