Talk:Ebionite Jewish Community/Misc Talk

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This page was created to archive preaching, rants, personal attacks, religious debates and sectarian sniping. In other words, discussions related to the subject of the article that have nothing to do with discussing improvements to the article. Ovadyah 03:50, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please Don't Fix

Please Don't fix, since the article on the Ebionite Jewish Community represents a typical suppression of both historical facts and quotes, and the castration of reference materials because of political pressure. I have begun to use the suppression of the facts as an example of how references resoureces are castrated in order to suppress the Truth which you can review at http://TheThreeLies.com#TrueProphet. This is an important lesson for seekers of Truth to recognize, and I can therefore use this article and the main Ebionite article of a prime example of this fact and reality --Nazirene 13:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I suspect this link contains some kind of redirect to capture IP addresses. Use it at your own risk. Ovadyah 20:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

It is good to give a warning because the truth you learn at that site you will give an accounting to some dayNazireneMystic 21:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From Shemayah Phillips

I do not understand why more opportunities for this foolish controversy are being given. Even in the comments above we see Nazirene (or something) and nazirene mystic are being made to reference a purported "ebionite" group that constantly changes and reinvents itself almost as a product. They can't even decide what they actually are. Nazirene (various spellings it seems), Essenes, Ebionites, and if some other ancient group emerges that can be construed in some way to be mystical, they will absorb that name also. If one would do a little research they would see that even the latest name of their "movement" is a misdirection from the Ebionite webpage (ebionite.org) which has been "Restoring the Way of the Ancient Evyonim, Yahwism, and Renewed Covenant" since an Ebionite presence began on the internet. You are free to search the evyonim list at yahoogroups (the most recent host of our email list after being on some now defunct list hosts since 1995) and get all the information they wish to have, including some candid admissions by Cronshaw before he was banned several times (he kept coming back under false identities). We have consistently been one thing, Ebionites throughout the years.

Additionally, I care so much that this falsification by Cronshaw of Evyonut does not befoul the movement, I would rather see NO Articles rather than lies. The last thing anyone needs is another remystification and re-mythologizing of Yeshua. Thank you, and pardon the intrusion, but actual Evyonim have something at stake here.207.144.237.161 01:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)Shemayah207.144.237.161 01:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Mr.Phillips, in your post you said some libelous things:

I do not recall you actualy using the term " Ebionite Restoration Movement" on your site or else were and your idea he got that name from your site is a far strech. He actualy has referenced the movement by that name for years. I do not recall Allan going by Nazirene spelt another way or has he called himself an Essene or his group essene's. I have been in your yahoo group and only you and maybe another admin are even allowed to post. The best thing you have going for your group is that [for the time being] the Ebionite Gospel is lost to antiqutiy. Given the misinformation in your above post if you actualy met an Ebionite in person your might spit on him and call him a "Smuck"NazireneMystic 19:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shemayah Phillips

I see that English is apparently not your first language (apologies if wrong) but no libel involved. Why would you become a member of our group? Did you identify yourself, introduce yourself including religious background according to list policy? (No.) Mr. C has not had a website concerning Ebionites anywhere near as long as we have. So calling himself ERM is at least much more recent than ebionite.org and Ebionite Jewish Community, and I have seen nor heard of any such thing until recently. I suspect you have not been associated with Cronshaw for more than a few years. I will look in my list archives to see when he began all this because it was after we rejected him as a reincarnation of "Matthew" that he more or less threatened to redefine Ebionitism to fit his own beliefs. I can assure you that at one time (I am not a frequent visitor to his websites- only when someone writes to inform me of his mischief) he had linked websites connecting essenes, nazirenes, and then ebionites. (I could not remember which spelling of nazarene he used, but knew it was non-standard.) It was obvious that he used as many keywords and site names to attempt to monopolize the search engines as he could. (He's actually quite good at it.)

I would not do what you say. I would unsubscribe him, as indeed I have several times (3?) after he was banned under one identity, and would then resubscribed under an alias. I would prefer to unsubscribe/ban you also. But I truly do try to be accurate about what I call people. There's no reason for you to accuse me or speculate at what I would call someone. (Cronshaw recently spread the false information accusing me of being a Christian minister at one time which is much worse than the treatment you mention.) As a list member (a proper member following list policy) you can read the list archives. Any member can post to our list--but messages are moderated to block Christian missionizing and other strange messages that are inappropriate for the actual goals of our group. It is not a forum not has it ever claimed to be. But if you are still a member, I am asking you to quit immediately, or identify yourself honestly so I can unsubscribe you. Even still you can read recent list messages. I will find Cronshaw's messages and repost them so you will see them regardless---that is if they were made during the list's existence at Yahoogroups rather than an earlier list host. If you had followed list policy and had honestly identified yourself then I could have made these comments on the list instead of here. (Sorry Wikipedia)

The so-called G. of the Ebionites (actually sayings Epiphanius claims were used by Ebionites) originated well over 200 years after the fact in confused and conflated attacks based on second hand information compiled (poorly) by Epiphanius. I invite you to read early second century information on the Ebionites, and also Glen Allan Koch's dissertation on Epiphanius' chapter on the Ebionites. You might also read the historical writings of Muslim writer Abd al-Jabbar. You will find that your friend understands very little about Ebionitism.

If you have further accusations you might consider making them on the list while you are still (if you are still) a member. But if only you would educate yourself all this could be a voided any place. 207.144.215.44 04:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)Shemayah Phillips207.144.215.44 04:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)