Talk:East Coast Swing

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Portal	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dance, which collaborates on Dance and related subjects. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

Contents 1 Please Note 2 Ambiguity in She Goes and He Goes descriptions 3 Page title 4 Transwiki

[edit] Please Note

The following four comments where posted prior to the current Edit. Also please note the corrected definition of the terms Jitterbug and Swing by left clicking on them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dancefusion‎ (talk • contribs).

The article "East Coast Swing" is too filled with inaccuracy to be edited. It needs to be replaced in full with accurate information relative to the East Coast Swing.

1. The "Steps" described are mis-named and the descriptions within are misleading. To begin with "Steps" in dance is the "Footwork", "Positions" are the positions that the partners are in to perform a specific "Pattern" (body movement) There is no "He Goes" or "She Goes" and when used with "Leader" and "Follower" is ambigulous. The titles are "Woman's Underarm Right Turn" or "Woman's Underarm Left Turn" and "Man's Underarm Right Turn" or "Man's Underarm Left Turn", all depending on the direction that the turn is to be made and by whom. The turns are also correctly sometimes called "Outside Turn" or "Inside Turn" describing the direction that the turn is to be made. Partner dancing obviously forms a partnership and within the partnership there is a leader and follower. Traditionally the leader is the man and the woman is the follower. "Outside" or "Inside" is viewed from within the partnership from the vantage point of the man (leader)with the couple facing each other right eye to right eye. To the man's left is outside for both partners and to the man's right is inside for both partners.

2. The "Footwork" described is from dances that are not to be mixed. The article states that the footwork of Swing Dance, Jitterbug, Lindy-hop, and East Coast Swing can all be mixed. That is not true! An East Coast Swing is an East Coast Swing and the steps (footwork) and can not be mixed with those of the other swing dances. The single step is Swing Dance; the double step is Jitterbug; the triple step is East Coast Swing; and holds are syncopations numerous variations. This so call "Footwork" describes "Step" that belong to specific dance styles and are not mixed within the same dance. Each can be danced to the same genre of music with the same tempo depending on the dance couple's level of dance.

3. An In-place Basic is the steps danced in the same place without movement to either side or forward or backward. They do not have to be danced in the same position.

4. The pattern originally described as the pretzel is correctly renamed the cuddle although the turn is the "wrap turn" and the position that the couple ends in is the "cuddle position". The "pretzel" is a position and the turn necessary to achieve the "pretzel" position is a modified "Woman's Underarm Right Turn". It is an intermediate level position.

5. The "Tuck Turn", the "Throw-out", and the "Return to Close" are all mislead. There are no nudges or pulls or pushes in dance. Each pattern is lead by each partner maintaining a correct frame. Directional body movement is lead from the frame itself, not nudges, pulls, or pushes. Turns, dips, flow, promenaides and other patterns are all lead by properly trained arm and hand placements of the man (leader).

6. Like other topics requiring expert instruction, amateur dancers should refrain from writing dance instruction, editing the content of such instruction. A case in point is the page on "East Coast Swing". It has had so many contributors, each meaning well, but most misinformed.

--AttitudeDanceStudios 13:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from User talk:AttitudeDanceStudios

While I agree that this article in its current state is fairly poor for an encyclopedia article, I would disagree with some of your proposed corrections. Dance instruction is not universal, and for many dances (particularly folk dances like most swing dances), it is quite common for them to be taught and described differently in various regions. There are some trends that tend to be generally recognized as "right", but there is no governing body over swing dance that says what is "right" or "wrong". I would particularly take issue with #2 on your list. I have never heard swing dance, jitterbug, and East Coast Swing broken down in that way, and I know many people who would disagree with it. Swing dance generally refers to a category of dances that includes lindy hop, East Coast Swing, West Coast Swing, jitterbug, and many other dances listed in the swing dance article. Also, keep in mind that swing dancers and ballroom dancers tend to view their dances differently. For example, while ballroom dancers usually see lindy hop and East Coast Swing as being very different from one another, there are many credible swing dancers who consider East Coast Swing to be a subset of lindy hop that uses similar techniques rather than a completely different dance.

Regarding #6 on your list, Wikipedia is not limited to experts only. It is open for anyone to edit as they please, as long as they follow the rules and guidelines for Wikipedia. We would hope that the editors of an article would include experts who could add information to articles beyond what an amateur could do, but no has the right to say that an amateur cannot edit an article. Besides, what constitutes an "expert" can be subjective. I've known dancers who claimed to be experts when they could not follow some of the most basic principles of dancing.

--Cswrye 03:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

This article has been marked for cleaning up. I'll work on some of the class materials I use and post soon. PatHaugen 22:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)pathaugen

[edit] Ambiguity in She Goes and He Goes descriptions

The descriptions of the She Goes move and the He Does move seem to be somewhat ambiguous and maybe contradictory, or at least unclear.

According to the descriptions, in both cases someone is going under the leader's raised hand, so in each cases the person is turning toward the leading hand (counter-clockwise for leader, clockwise for follower). However, one is labeled "inside" but the other is labeled "outside," which seems to be contradictory.

It would help if:

1. The descriptions specified the direction of the spin (clockwise or the reverse).

2. The descriptions explicitly mentioned whether the hand was raised straight up or was raised and brought across in front of the follower (or wherever else).

3. The page explained what "inside" and "outside" meant. (What are they based on--the inside and outside of what?)

Daniel B.

As an answer to the questions: (#1) the follow preforms a basic inside turn and then the lead (on counts five and six) does a counter-clockwise turn under the connected hands... I tried to make that somewhat more clear in the article; (#2) should be fixed, tell me if it's still unclear somewhere; (#3) everyone has a different reason for why they're called inside and outside turns -- some argue that it's because an inside turn results in the follow turning toward you (inside) rather than turning away from you (outside) while others argue that it's based on how the lead leads the move (in an inside turn, the lead brings his hand inside whereas in an outside, the lead brings his hand out and outside of this abstract "box" made by the shoulders of the lead and follow and the two connected hands of the lead and the follow). Utopianheaven 09:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page title

I have removed the excess capitalisation of words that are not proper names. I hesitate on the page title, however. ECS is a common abbreviation, but does that nedessarily mean that the full name should be capitalised? Should it be "East Coast Swing" or "East Coast swing"? I have seen the latter often, but IMHO I think it should be more correct. // Habj 12:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I would weakly disagree, based only on the notion that East Coast Swing (ECS) comes from Eastern Swing (ES)... such that the term 'swing' isn't qualifying East Coast as a type of swing dance but part of the actual title of the dance (which just happens to be the type of dance it is). Just my two cents. :) Utopianheaven 09:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transwiki

Unless someone objects, I'm going to send the how-to sections of this article to Wikibooks. My current plan is to leave most of the lead here on Wikipedia (which is fine, it just needs some sources), and move most of the "moves" text into the b:Swing Dancing/East Coast Swing, easily accessible from the See Also section. The remaining article will probably be a stub, and will probably need some help in recovery. Please let me know if you think those sections are necessary to the integrity of the article (and can provide suitable references), or if you feel this is inappopriate.--Will.i.am 21:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to keep a short list of steps, essentially what was here before the October rewrite. I'm hoping someone will transwiki the how-to sections because I don't want to just erase it. But it's become too verbose to add anything to it. ( I came here to add something to the double-time basic but it's full of counts and calls that I'm unfamiliar with. I wanted to say that in the double swing the lead spends more time on his left foot than on the right, so that it might be counted slow-slow, quick-quick, rock-step. I also think the "footwork" section should be renamed "Basic Step" and be put at the beginning of the steps. It should just say what the steps are for the basic, and simply mention that there is similar timing for the other moves ) Squidfryerchef 06:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry. I had transwikied the article and then never got around to removing the how-to section from the wikipedia article. I left a short description of the basic (if I got that suggestion right from your comment), but do feel that it too should have a reference (got a dance book or anything?). Please put things back in that I accidentally removed if you want them, but a very ambitious (and appreciated) user has been doing a lot on East Coast Swing in Wikibooks where the material was transwikied to, and where any step-by-step breakdown probably should be.--Will.i.am 13:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I wont feel bad for yanking large chunks of the article if I get around to working in it. I'm going for a very short list of steps like in the articles on Salsa or Argentine Tango. There won't be any talk about which foot goes where, just some explanation on what's what. Squidfryerchef 05:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)