Talk:Earthbender

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I think we're confusing Earthbending with Firebending here. Earthbending does not rely on SHEER strength alone, it has many strong defenses. Firebending is the one with virtually almost no defense, but instead relys on it's heavy offense as it's defense.

I just don't want to diverge overmuch from the import of the official site. "Exeptionally muscular Earthbenders use their strength to overpower opponents." From a more editorial standpoint, I don't think by mentioning their great strength, we're saying it's sheer strength alone, just that strength's the prominent characteristic of their battle strategy, even in defensive manevers. (Levitating giant rocks and holding them there as shields! :P) Nor does strength necessarily mean "purely offensive." Remember the preceding sentence does mention balance of offensive and defensive maneuvers. Actually, in the case of Firebenders, I think it's more fierce intensity and focus than strength, judging by their style of focused barrage.--Buinne 05:06, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
"Judge me by my size will you?" -- Yoda H2P 04:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Symbol

In The Earth Kingdom and the Avatar State we constantly see a symbol of a circle with a square in it. Is this not the symbol of Earthbenders?

No its happens to be the symbol of the Earth Kingdom as a whole. The simple of the style of bending is different.

[edit] Ferrokinetics/Magnetism

I don't understand how the assumption can be made that Earthbenders climb walls by magnetizing their limbs. Although I do not know when an Earthbender has ever climbed up a wall, I do not think that any form of magetism would be involved as they cannot influence metal. Instead, it would be more logical to assume that they are 'pulling'-for lack of a better term, on the rock with their Bending abilities.

Comes from the Avatar website at Nick, we're just going off that H2P 06:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I did not know that; the website would probably be cannon, then? Although it does seem contradictory-unless only certain Earthbenders can affect magnetism...--Romuluscrohns 17:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Did it state specificly that they used magnetism, or it did it just mention them climbing up walls?--Romulus 03:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

It seems very, very contradictory for Earthbenders to have ferrokinetic abilities and no ability to bend metal. At the very least the presence of such abilities would suggest that there could be a Metalbending specialty, just as Sandbenders specialize in sand, Waterbenders can specialize in living matter (Foggy Swamp style), and Firebenders can learn to use lightning. --Sean Patrick Santos 01:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey, speaking of magnetism, I HIGHLY doubt that the dai li's gloves are operated via ferrokinetics. It just makes no sense. They control them the same way they control levitating rocks, by bending itself. To magnetize things that you intend to shoot at someone and manipulate into grabbing them is pointless, and it's definitely not enough to cause the gloves to open and release.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.61.200.253 (talk)

In the magnetism section it says that each kind of bending has a sub-skill. That is not true, there's no known Airbending sub-skill, unless someone considers the way Aang pulled his staff in the pilot a form of pyschokinesis. The opening phrase must be changed.

Just because it hasn't been shown doesn't mean there isn't one. I'm pretty sure the sub-skill came from a statement by one of the creators or Sifu but I can't remember exactly. I'll go digging for the source again. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 15:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I still am not convinced that Earthbenders can become magnetic. Climbing up a wall or sticking to the ceiling can be accomplished by wearing gloves and shoes of earth as demonstrated by the Dai Li; they are merely pulling the rock towards them (and in the process, being pulled back). The opposite effect was shown in Bitter Work when Aang tried to move a boulder with Earthbending but he pushed away instead. Does the site (which I cannot access easily because I have dial-up) specifically say that Earthbenders can affect magnetism or does it just state that they can climb up walls?

Yes. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 01:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

As for the 'sub-bending'; water benders doe not bend living matter, but the water inside of it (and through extension, the Chi using the water), Sandbenders are realy jsut Earthbenders with a different style due to lack of most types of Earth (other than sand, which they obviously use). Metalbending most likely does not exist, as it would not fit in with the themes presented so far and they fit with the four Bending Arts. Lightning is not so much a different type of firebending, as it seems (based on Iroh's explanations) that it is merely a 'pure' form of Firebending. It gives the impression that are in fact manipulators of energy, with heat (and fire) being the easiest and simplest form of expressing it. Long story short; it does not really seem like there are any sub-types, so much as variations on the same core skills and abilities. If someone could possibly post a quote from the Nick site it would be greatly appreciated and I'm not trying to disagree, just help clarify things? I'm wondering also if we can trust all oof the Nick site info as being cannon if they do actaully state that Earthbenders are ferrokinetic. --Romulus 00:54, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, let's just clear this up, has there been any on-screen information to imply any sort of magnetic ability on the part of the Earthbenders? Any at all? Simply clinging to a vertical surface is not an implication of magnetic ability, since they're clinging to stone walls/ceilings (Which Earthbenders can control) and wearing stone gloves/boots (Which Earthbenders can also control). As people have mentioned here on this very talk page, for all we know they were just bending their boots and holding them in place against the wall, just like Aang bends air against his glider to make himself fly; he's not bending gravity or anything like that.

The only off-screen information I've seen has been a few of the special features on the Book 1 DVD's, and I haven't even watched every one yet, so I've not seen any creator commentary or interview discussing magnetism, and maybe I'm just missing something, but if all that counts as canon is what you see on screen, then we've seen no magnetism. Does the Nick website really count as canon, cause if not, then magnetism doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I'm going to put a tag on the main page noting that its only been mentioned on the web-page and hasn't been seen on the show, because otherwise it still hasn't really been in the show yet. JBK405 03:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

New issues.

There are only two links at the bottom of this page, I followed both, and neither one mentioned magnetism. At all. One links to a video clip that also came with the DVD, the martial arts consultant explaining where Earthbending came from, and the other linked to an interview with the same guy. I also read other interviews on that page, including the directors. Magnetism is nowhere to be found.

Now maybe it's somewhere else on the Nickelodeon web-site, or some other place, but that's not listed as a source. All we have are these two links, and it's not there or in the show. Where did this come from? JBK405 20:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

From Nick.com: "Earthbenders also posses the ability to 'magnatize' thier limbs, allowing them to scale shear walls and cliffs." H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 01:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, people are still adding back the information saying that the Dai Li control their gloves through magnetism and that Toph's rock-armor was also magnetic, and they say say that the creators confirmed that at PMX.

Now, I have reverted that once again, but this time only because I have no way to verify that information since they didn't actually give a source on the main page (Meaning there's no link to a transcript of whatever the creators aid, no link to a video clip, no description of the newspaper article it was reported in, or anything else like that). For whoever put that information back, I will stop reverting it as soon as you present the source. A link, a newspaper article date and page number, just give us something to check and I'll stop bothering. JBK405 15:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'Puppet Mastery'

Shouldn't the 'Puppet Mastery' topic be a subtopic under techniques?

[edit] Mentalbending

You're going to be needing a Metalbending section beneath Sandbending, it seems to be an advanced Earthbender technique. --69.136.111.100 17:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Which only Toph can do. A slight mention of it should be enough. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 19:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It is far from cannon to say that toph bends using only the trace elements of earth in metal. The imagery suggests something like this, but this version of the article goes too far. It's just as rational to assume that she can bend metal without earth or crystal impurities. 66.41.66.213 05:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Mentalbending?

[edit] Bumi

Bumi told Aang that he needs to find a teacher that can "see" Earth. Even though Bumi wasn't blind, could this mean that his mastery of Earthbending discovered a way to "see" Earth in a way like Toph? 72.154.89.221 14:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Bumi said Aang's teacher needed to listen to the earth, not see it, which is why Aang got Toph to be his teacher (Since all she does is listen). JBK405 15:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dai Li

The fighting style of the Dai Li should be listed here. --69.136.111.100 21:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to add it.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 22:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magnetism

At the very end of that section, there is a mention of an "original concept". There is, however, no reference or link made to that "original concept". There is no other source mentioned. So someone please point me towards where the word "magnetism" was specifinally used by the creators as an earthbending skill.

Without that, the concept of "magnetism" is complete cruft and shouldn't be used to describe the act of earthbending in any situation.

Katara was capable of engulfing herself in water just like Toph did with rocks in Bitter Work. Yet we aren't stating that Katara does so by magnetism. Katara used water to bring a fish towards her in the very first episode of the show, just like the Dai Li use their rock gloves to bring people to them. We still didn't say that Katara used magnetism.

Furthermore, it's been stated in the Nick site (Episode Lake Laogai, Gears & More section, Rock Gloves) and by director Giancarlo Volpe at the San Diego Comicon 2006 (seen in the video "Tour of Ba Sing Se" available here) that the Dai Li don't use magnetism to climb and scale rock walls - they merge their gloves with the earth using earthbending, allowing them to climb and stand.

Metal-less earth is as magnetic as metal-less water. Ions and anything else that might factor into it can be present in both soil and lakes. It's really quite pointless to try and argue that the earthbenders must be doing those feats by magnetism, while the waterbenders are not. Unless, as I mentioned, there is indeed a true reference that can be cited. Otherwise, real-life science shouldn't be used to explain fictional magical phenomena.

I'm proposing removal of that section entirely, and a rewording of its content to be placed into the "Tecniques" section without using the word "magnetism".

So, once again, show me where I can find this "orignal concept" that is mentioned and I'll properly reference the section. Otherwise, it needs to go. Sage of Ice 23:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

  • sigh* Once again, and I swear this is like the 14th time, magnetism is mentioned as a skill on Nick.com/Avatar, Avatar's official homepage. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 06:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Except that they use the word 'magnetize' just like that - in quotations. Putting a word in quotations like that means that its true meaning isn't being used literally (you can see that for yourself here. At best, it is meant to be taken as a metaphor, a way to visualize the ability. It certainly does not state that magnetism (direct, without quotes, literal) is a skill of the earthbender, nor does it try to use the concept of magnetism to explain the science behind earthbending. Which is exactly what this article is trying to say, and is erroneous in doing so.
Therefore, giving magnetism its own section, and stating so much about it, is sloppy. At the very most the whole section should be merged with "Techniques" and reworded to included the word 'magnetize' in quotations, just like Nick.com did. Once again, there is a huge difference between 'magnetize' and magnetize. Sage of Ice 20:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
M'kay the little Earth scroll thingie says the same thing about magnetism and even provides a picture of a female bender scaling a cliff (and they way she does it, the guy who made Spiderman should sue, again) as for that Dai Li and "orginal concept" stuff, it all was provided by Mike and Bryan at the PMX (Pacific Media Expo) convention. Huh, "You'd think fans of the series would know about their ...con panel." Did you see what I did? Okay, awesome. ~71.163.76.189 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I see exactly what you did, you misused a quote of mine to attempt an insult. You see, when I said that, I *knew* what I was talking about. But I digress... If you were to have read what I said before you replied you would have seen:
a) That I already mentioned the "scroll thingy" on Nick.com. So look up and read. I'll give you a hint: quotation marks.
b) I already covered the Dai Li scaling the walls. And I didn't say they couldn't do it, I just said it wasn't through magnetism.
Let's move on then. The "original concept" shown at PMX... are you referring to the one question that was asked? Because there was no "concept" there, it was just Mike and Bryan talking about the Dai Li and their style. They mentioned nothing concrete about magnetism. Feel free to provide me with a link to prove me wrong, however, as I always welcome more factual information. In other words, I want the link that reveals this: "The original concept was that most Earthbenders could use some form of magnetism, but it has since been altered to be a higher level elemental sub-skill technique that only a few can perform."
Provide me with that link/reference, and I'll be happy.
Also, while you're looking for that link, feel free to also provide the links which state the following:
"Each of the four bending disciplines contain a special sub-skill unique only to certain members of the element."
Try to keep things civil. I'll mention it once again: I fully believe that Earthbenderns are capable of doing what is described in the Magnetism section, hell, we've all seen them do it. I just do NOT see anything that states that they do it through ACTUAL magnetism.
Once again.... "magnetize" =/= magnetize. Understand the grammar here. Sage of Ice 22:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
To make things as clear as possible: Until there is concrete evidence that the word magnetism (unquoted and literal) is used to describe those feats of earthbending, we should remove that section and reword the information into the "Fighting Style" section. The word "magnetize" (in quotations and metaphorically, as seen on Nick.com) can then be used to describe what the act RESEMBLES, as opposed to what it IS. Sage of Ice 22:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Whoa there, I think some clarification is called for. But seriously, I wasn't insulting you, I was just playing around, hence the use of quotes and the "Did you get it? ...awsome" bit. I kinda don't have any reason to be insulting you. Though I suppose this kinda stuff can be quite difficult to illustrate or personify simply with text. Next, when I said "scroll thingie" I was referring to the Lost Scroll for Earth which featured a female Earthbender scaling a cliff in a manner that echoed Spider-man, right down to the fingertips (lawsuit, I also forgot to hyphenate). The "other" scroll thingie for the four bending arts on Nick.com doesn't feature any illustrations. As for the PMX. Mike and Bryan stated that it was indeed magnetic control and that that originally the early concept was that most if not all Earthbenders could perform it (hence why it was put on the Nick site over 2 years ago) but it has since been altered to a higher level that only a few can do (much like lightning). They went on to say that each element has a greater and lesser form to it that forms a sort of balance (lightning for fire, healing for water, and apparently magnetism for earth; the balancer for airbending is still a mystery). A whole mess of dudes speculate that its sound (with plenty of "science" to back it up) or something but even as a science-y person myself, I'd just rather wait until they give us something (or rather make something up). As we've seen and know by now, balance is a pretty big thing in this show. 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... interesting. Someone really needs to put that stuff up on the internet so that I can read it, as it sounds like a good read. Also, I need to find a store that sells those Lost Scrolls... in Canada; the more information the better.

All that having been said, I like the general concept. I long since noticed that fire and water had those subskills, I just didn't think it was a concept they were deliberately trying to acheive with all elements, though I was hopeful. However, if what you say is true about their statements at PMX, then I find myself quite ecstatic about their vision. I had originally thought, though, that the earth subskill was metal. Even though it's apparently just earth impurities and not really the metal.... which brings me to my next point:

If they have magnetic control then... does that mean they're supposed to be capable of bending metal without having to rely on earthly impurities? Cause it seems to make logical sense when you think about what magnetism is more connected with.

As a final thought I will say that I share the same feeling as the others about "sound". It was what I orginally thought as well, also being a scientific person.

Well, thanks for enlightening me, hopefully I'll come across a full transcript of PMX one day to see what Bryan and Mike had to say. Sage of Ice 04:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the Magnetism section from the page (again) because, regardless of whether or not the information is accurate (And at this point I've stopped trying to figure out if it is or isn't), Wikipedia clearly states that only verified information is to be displayed. The magnetism section only had references to two episodes of the series and, though it certainly may have been magnetism, neither episode said or did anything to imply that it actually was. I freely admit that the Nickelodeon Avatar web-page does mention magnetism, so it does exist, and I personally added its information to the article, but it is only a single sentence that includes nothing on armor or distant control, and makes no mention of a skill unique to each bending art. As such, until a book, interview, web-page, etc. can be presented as a source for information on Magnetism, it should remain out of the article. No source, no submitting. JBK405 04:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] pictures

Do we need 2 pictures of earth kingdom soliders bending at the top of the page, could'nt we just have 1 Tremewanbill 04:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jing or Nèi Jìng?

ok, so i was looking at this article and during the talk about the Jing, it gives a link. i followed the link i found that that there are several forms of Jing. i looked at what looked as the most relevant one, that said it dealt with a principle in martial arts. that article, however is about the essence in the body, such as kidney essence or semen. is this really the Jing they are talking about? I followed a link from that article that said not to be confused with the 'related concept of jìn (勁; power)'. the link for Nèi Jìng (Nèi Jìn) is about internal power in martial arts, so is this a more accurate link to use when talking about Jìng? Jing[[1]] Nèi Jìng[[2]] Monk3 06:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Is it possible to Earthbenders to bend salt? Has there been any reference in the show about bending the salt out of the water so they could defend themselves while in the sea, like desalinizing the water? Just a theory. 201.17.66.231 16:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


I don't think there has been reference to this before,and it would probably have to be a fairly high amount of salinity in the water, so like a sea or an ocean. I don't know, though, because normally Earthbenders would have a strong connection with the earth to bend it, and in water, I'm not sure how strong of a connection they would have. Monk3 03:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It is probably possible, but we havent seen anything too similar to it in the show, so it shouldn't be added to the page. Bagpipeturtle 03:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Huh?

Why is it that when an earthbender earthbends a rock out of the ground but there is no hole or anything where the rock was recently taken from? (Whats a question? 23:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC))

I'm pretty sure that's just an oversight in the animation process; episodes twoards the end of season two have actually shown the holes, indicating that they will be drawn from know on.--Romulus 01:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I didn't notice. Thanx for the input. 65.34.72.52 12:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rock Candy?

...How did King Bumi bend the rock candy (creeping crystals)? Is rock candy made of actual rock? Because I dont see how he could bend rock CANDY. Confusion a side dont you think this should be mentioned in the artical? 65.34.72.52 19:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If there is a mineral used in the growth of the creeping crystal, it would be possible, but I doubt that it's a major issue.--Romulus 01:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, Of course it's not. I was just curious. Although, candybending is more powerful than you know! Muhahahahahahaa! -65.34.72.52 00:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe, in the Avatar World, rock candy is really made of rock. I'm pretty sure there isn't such thing as "candybending," though. I woudln't read too much into it. Bagpipeturtle 21:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

How is bending sugar any real different than bending sand? H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 23:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Sugar is organic.--Romulus 06:30, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Sugar is made from sugarcane, not actual rock. Bagpipeturtle 03:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Dang... I expected this section to be long deleted... guess not... anyways, isnt plant considered to be a part of the element earth? So why wouldnt they be able to bend sugarcane or wood for that matter? Whats a question? 01:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Uh, no. Wood is not considered to be part of the earth element. Wood is not one of the elements used in Avatar, it is part of a five- or six-element model. Avatar uses a four-element model (hence the Four Nations). Have you ever seen an earthbender bending wood in the show? No. If any benders were to manipulate plants such as sugarcane or sugar beets, it would be waterbenders, because of the water concentrated within the plants. Not earthbenders. They bend rock, not plants. Bagpipeturtle 04:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Earthbenders

To be quite honest, Haru and the Terra Team aren't really all that notable. The terra team for previously discussed reasons. While Haru, not counting the lackluster videogame or that cute little short (where his long gone VA was replaced with a goat), the poor one-shot guy has only appeared once in a pretty standalone episode. Even in terms of the show universe thingie he's practically just some random commoner. It would seem as though we're puttin down every Earthbender that comes our way. Though neccessary in the first season as we weren't treated to all that many, but with ya'know "Book 2 Earth" and the good thousand or so (if ya count all those random guards), I think some distinctions can be made. ~Father's Wish 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the Terra Team should be there because they are (at least they were supposed to be) expert Earthbenders, and even though Haru had only a minor role, he was the first earthbender seen in the series, not to mention that he's the first one to earthbend on-screen. And why aren't Kuruk and Yangchen listed here? They were Avatars and therefore Earthbenders. 189.4.230.173 22:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Kuruk and Yangchen were born Water and Airbenders, respectively. We can't mention them in every article, that would be repetitive. So they should be listed into the articles of their nationalities. ɱўɭĩєWhat did I dowrong 04:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Kinda late in the game, but uh, Bumi? ~Father's Wish 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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