Talk:Dutch

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Whoever created this disambiguation page didn't bother fixing the numerous now-broken links to the two meanings. I will try to fix these as I have time and I encourage anyone else to help out if they have time. --maveric149

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[edit] "Lets go Dutch"

What does that phrase mean???

-G


[edit] Offensive term

Why is dutch offensive for some in the netherlands? If that is the case, why they still sing in their national anthem: duitse blood? or something like that? So, anything that sound a bit german is offensive for some dutch? Might be true, but than they maybe should change the text of their national anthem as well.

Fact is the netherland were part of middle age germany and the language was the same until the later middle ages. Only after that it became a seperate language and a seperate people.

Fact is you are wrong. Please read the article before making such statements. Dutch is not a derative of German (not todays german anyway, but altdeutsch). As for the Anthem, the text is "Duitschen bloed", 'Duitschen' a variant of 'Diets', not 'Deutsch'. Dutch is offensive because it is the English form of old Netherlandic 'Diets', which was used by nazis (the nazis used and abused many words. Thats why many think "grossdeutschland" was invented by the nazis. Actually its originally from the 1848 revolution) to promote the fictional pan-Germanic heritage of the Netherlands and Germany. Also, it implies that the Netherlands is but a part of Germany, and that the Netherlandic language is a German dialect, which is not the case. Netherlandic dialects diverged from the Germanic tree long before most German dialects did. — Jor (Talk) 20:38, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Dutch is also the niederdeutsche word (a northern german dialect) for "Deutsch". So i am not completly wrong. I did not say that dutch is a dialect of german. It is not. It can't because it has its own written language. What i said is that dutch was (past) a german dialect in the middle ages. Or maybe the other way around. In the middle ages it was the same language.

But you didnt explained why they find "dutch" offensive but not "duitsch". If dutch is the english word for "diets" and "diets" a variant of "Duitsch" than they must be offended with "duitsch" as well. That is the logical conclusion, isn't it?

Refering to the germanic (germanische!!! nicht deutsche) heritage is not too fictional. The bataver were a germanic tribe. It is not a german problem that "german" is the english word of "deutsch", so the english often cant distinguish between the "ancient" germanic tribes and germans.

My point is if you state in the article: "They are offended by the term "dutch"", than you maybe should explain it. Knowbody except dutch would know why. I didn't. Maybe some germans would rather be called bavarians or saxons. But stating something that knowbody knows why is absurd.

If, than put a link and explain it.

Besides, the english called the dutch, dutch long before hitler was even born. So, only because the nazis used or rather misused that term, they should just rename everything. I think your point of view is rather absurde.

Maybe the germans should also rename all words with führer in it: like Lokführer, Reiseführer, lol.

As far as I know, dutch people aren't offended by the therm dutch( and I am dutch, so I should know) The english word for the language spoken in germany is german, and I have never heard of the therm Duitsch in english. however, the dutch word for german is Duits. I do know, that since our anthem is very old (+- 500 jears old) spelling wasn't solid in that time. In most versions it Dietsen bloed is said, but since diets is an archaic therm, modern Dutch versions all state Duits instead of Diets. Diets means "of the people". There is a lot of debate wether the song says of german blood or of normal blood(of the people). Both are reasonable possibilities. William of orange had german roots, and the song was wrote for William of nassau. But William wrote the song to get to the normal people and create a bonding feeling. Of course, peasants would support William more eagerly if he acknowledged his normal blood. In modern politics, get closer to the people. The same reason why Bush kept its Texan accent. So I think that that part should be deleted or at least improved. anyone disagree?

  • Indeed -- the word "Dutch" is not considered offensive by Dutch people. The alternative that was mentioned in the previous revision, "Netherlandic", is definitely not a existing word. There exists a word "Netherlandish" (according to the Van Dale English-Dutch dictionary). However, that word is rarely used, and certainly not as an alternative to the so-called 'offensive' Dutch. Therefore I have removed the remark about Dutch being offensive. Guus 18:04, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)
This whole issue surprises me quite a bit. Like most people the Dutch are proud of their country and nationality, and they know perfectly well the English word "Dutch" means "Nederlands". There is no offence. When abroad, Dutch people are often mistaken for Germans. That is considered offensive.
The issue of the national anthem is unrelated to this. The text reads "Duitsen bloed" (not "Dietsen bloed"); and the Dutch word "Duits" doesn't mean Dutch but German. So "German blood" (or "German origin") that is.
"Wilhelmus van Nassauwe, ben ik, van Duitsen bloed..." or "William of Nassau, I am, of German origin..."
The phrase cannot be understood without its historical context. The "I" in the phrase refers specifically to William the Silent (William of Orange-Nassau), not to just any Dutchman singing the song. And William, the Dutch "father of the fatherland", was a German (from Nassau) and not a Dutchman. He didn't even understand a word of Dutch (he spoke French most of the time, because he was educated in Brussels).
Need more confusion? Read the complete text of the Dutch national anthem (here on Wikipedia, in Dutch and English). Two phrases further in the text William sings that he honours the king of Spain (his enemy in the Dutch revolt)...
Let's rehearse: William was the Dutch father of the fatherland, he had German blood, spoke French and honoured the king of Spain. European history is complex (but so exciting). Jaho 13:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the people

There should be a separate page for the Dutch people. Instances of Dutch when referring to people should not be disambiguated. --Joy [shallot] 21:47, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pennsylvania Dutch

Dutch in Pennsylvania Dutch comes from "deutsch" (the german word for German and german language), not from "dutch". Pennsylvania Dutch is a relative to the german language, see Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania German language. (Hypnosekröte) 84.137.239.107 13:06, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Throrough shortening

I made a drastic reduction of the amount of links, since the vast majority simply refer to things that similarly named, but would would certainly never be articles that could be disambiguated from one another. I don't mind compromises, but we need to keep stuff like the nick-name of Reagan and the name of Ah-nuld's Predator-character out of these articles.

Peter Isotalo 16:12, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Another possibility.

What about 'going Dutch'? As in the colloquialism. Appropriate for this disambig.? → P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 14:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Link to disambig of Netherlands

I've linked to the disambig page of Netherlands, since "Dutch" historically can refer to any of these regions, not just the current kingdom of the Netherlands. Piet 17:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Movie

What about the movie Dutch released in 1991 starring Ed O'Niel? Jakz34 21:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Added. SCHZMO ✍ 21:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Memoir

What about Edmund Morris's Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan? --68.41.122.213 14:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Added. SCHZMO ✍ 21:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location of Netherlands

Isn't Netherlands located in central Europe, not northern? 81.197.47.179 21:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

OK. North-central Europe to be specific. But it's just a disambiguation page... SCHZMO ✍ 21:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
The Netherlands is in Western Europe, North-Western Europe if you like. Central Europe is quite a way from here, (Austria/Czechia etc.). North-central Europe would be Poland or so. The Netherlands is just east of England (separated by the North Sea), please take a look on a map and see for yourself. Jaho 13:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dutch;

Dutch;Well known name of pack of botanic thieves

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