Talk:Dumnonii
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have put in the point about Dumnonii being a Roman name, because there is absolutely no evidence to the contrary, but a lot of evidence to support it. Isca Dumnoniorum was the Roman name for the Legionary Garrison and later Civitas at what is now Exeter. There is almost no evidence of significant pre-Roman occupation of the site, though there probably was some settlement in the area. Likewise there is no evidence of any unified tribal kingdom pre-Roman, whereas there are significant differences in pre-Roman Iron Age hillforts and structures, with Dartmoor and Cornwall having significant differences to other areas, and those other areas having strong distinctions. If this is to be changed, some kind of evidence needs to be cited to support the change. The brythonic term for Exeter was Caer Uisk, nothing to do with 'dumnonii' or 'dumnoniorum'.
A further myth is that the Dumnonii provided no resistance to the Romans, this was supposed because the Exeter Garrison was not big enough for a full Legion, and there were 'no other significant sites', In fact, in Devon alone there are at least 15 known military sites inlcuding a vexillation fortress and two other forts on one site at North Tawton - see http://www.roman-britain.org/places/nemetostatio.htm - this concentration of sites, along with the 25 year Military occupation of the second legion Augustus at Exeter, rather give the lie to the myth of the Dumnonii offering no resistance.
--Trotboy 20:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
- "Caer Uisk" is either modern or middle Welsh, not Brythonic, or at least not the Brythonic that was spoken in the Iron Age, and Uisk is obviously derived from the "Isca" part of "Isca Dumnoniorum", not the "Dumnoniorum" part. The Romans absolutely did not make up names for the people they conquered. They rendered the names those people had for themselves into Latin spelling, which in reality meant little more than changing the Brythonic -os masculine ending to the Latin -us masculine ending, and I have again removed your absurd statement. --Nicknack009 23:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
You have still failed to cite anything whatsoever to support your assumption. Unless you were alive in the Iron Age - then there is no evidence whatsoever to support your claim, whereas there is plenty of Archeological evidence to support what I am saying. At the very least, if the Romans did Latinise an existing 'Celtic' Tribal name, then it was that of the Tribe in the area between the Axe and the River Exe, or solely the Exe valley area, since this was their first line of incursion into Devon - evidenced by the string of marching camps along the Eastern edge of the Exe Valley. Certainly it had nothing to do with the Cornish, or the people of Dartmoor or much or North, South and West Devon. 172.200.254.161 08:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- "Dumno-" is not a Latin word form. I've searched the Latin dictionaries at Persus and the only words that come up containing the substring "dumn" are Dumnorix, a Gaulish individual, and Geidumni, a Gaulish population group (the related substring "dubn" turns up nothing). It's Celtic. It exists in attested personal names like Togodumnus, Cogidubnus and Dumnovellaunus. I've seen it interpreted as meaning either "deep" or "world". The "-on-" infix is also well known in Celtic languages, appearing in personal, group and deity names to turn a noun or adjective into a proper name - for example, *mapos, son; Maponos, "the" son. "Dumnonii" is empatically not Latin.
- The west wasn't politically centralised, it's true, but "Dumnonii" may have been an ethnic name which applied to lots of small political units. By analogy, there were many English kingdoms in the early middle ages, but they all self-identified as "English". Equally, there may have been lots of local chiefdoms which all self-identified as Dumnonii. Alternatively, the Dumnonii may have been a suzereign tribe over a federation of a number of smaller local groups, and thus their name could reasonably be applied beyond the Exe valley area. --Nicknack009 18:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Is the mention of a devon flag really anything to do with this, bbc devon which invented the flag seems to deny this,and though others are using it when talking about ancient brythonic devon/southwest its orignal idea was a rouce of pride and tourism rather than a recognition of any sort of celtic tribe! This would be surely if a dumnonnian flag was invented surely? 131.111.8.104 19:36, 1 December 2005 (UTC) wpm
Stannary parliments? Is this relavent? I thought that the stannary parliments were created just to help the tin industry in these tin rich areas. I know the cornish one was granted additional rights afterwards that could be considered a recognition of legal rights etc. but thats cornwall not dumnonia. I don't know what the situation was for the devon stannaries But I'm farily sure both were originaly just in charge of an industry.
I think this was more a recognition of there being lots of tin rather than of dumnonia. I may edit or remove it.
