User talk:DShamen

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[edit] Oldham

Thanks for your message support about the Oldham page- it is really appreciated!... I was fairly sure it would be a considerable improvement from the previous version of the article... but the feedback I've received has been really positive and encouraging!

There are still some gaps in the article, particularly the history section (political history and coal mining), and I think the page would benefit from some more photographs.

I'm trying to use the featured article of "Sheffield" as an outstanding example to work towards.

I've also worked heavily on the Shaw and Crompton article, and hope to replicate that standard of article for all the borough areas, such as Failsworth, Royton etc.

Thanks again for your support, if you need any advise or feedback about contributions, do please let me know! Thanks, Jhamez84 15:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Appreciated! It definitely needed a revamp... a picture of Mumps Bridge was hardly the most attractive thing to include in the article! I've contributed a fair bit towards Oldham borough (and numerous other articles on here), unfortunately it would appear that we suffer from a minority of anti-Greater Manchester sorts who insist on removing 'Greater Manchester' every now and then... I spent a lot of time linking all articles based in the borough... would appear that some disagree with this! DShamen 15:30, 03 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metropolitan Borough of Oldham

Hi again DShamen, Just a message about a couple of edits you've made in the last few weeks/days.... The vast majority have been excellent, and really improved the content of articles on Wikipedia.

However, a couple of your edits caused a little bit of upset to some rather sensitive editors... whilst places like Chadderton are indeed in the Metropolitan Borough of Oldham, Greater Manchester, if you are editing articles about a person born before 1974, please say Chadderton, Oldham, Lancashire.

This is simply because the local government reforms did not take place until 1974 and so places like the borough of Oldham and the county of Greater Manchester did not exist.

If you are editing an article that is about a current town or location, or about someone born post 1974 - do please keep up the good work and include the modern areas.

If you take an interest in this field about geography status, I'd urge yourself to become familliar with the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places) (see the section about county systems and how we should present them), and be mindful of editors who are affilated with groups such as County Watch.

Hope everything is ok, and the above made some sense. Please keep up the good work! Thanks again, Jhamez84 21:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, I did wonder about that actually... whether to edit it to 'Greater Manchester' or keep it as Lancashire... My dad for one would object to being told he was born in 'Greater Manchester'. Cheers! DShamen 16:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I've just been looking through your contributions, and you have changed a lot of pre-1974 births to Greater Manchester, which is both anachronistic and against the spirit of WP:NAME and WP:MOS. Please would you consider going back through your recent biographical edits and changing back to the corresponding form where necessary? Many thanks, Aquilina 22:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

PS good work on the categorisations though - I didn't realise quite how many people were missing from the Oldham cat!

...and thanks muchly for the very speedy response! Aquilina 22:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem whatsoever! Thanks for taking time to contact me in the first place... admittedly I was slightly unsure whether to change the pre-1974 births, but figured that if it was considered incorrect, it could be easily rectified. Amazing how many people are actually from the Oldham area when you think about it! Cheers

DShamen 12:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal attacks

Hi again DShamen, Just wanted to notify you about some activity which took place today. It seems your old IP address (62.25.109.194) made some very inappropriate and obcene edits today - as per here. These included an attack upon yourself (which was swiftly removed) - as found here.

Just wanted to let you know I reported this at the earliest opportunity, and the IP is currently blocked (again). If you are targetted again, and are unsure as to what action to take, do please message me and I'll advise.

Hope that helped somewhat, and everything's ok. See you around! Jhamez84 21:57, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know... I don't know what I've done to upset this person though. User:DShamen 16:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

-I've had a look through their edit pattern to see if there was anything which may have given him/her a motive, but it seems there was not! The IP is shared and has caused numberous problems (as no doubt you will know about) for a considerable amount of time. I think the IP/user may not be... in a very good frame of mind to say the least. I'm unsure why he/she may have targetted you, it may be because you simply opted to register (!), but should it happen again, don't retaliate - simply report it at WP:AIV. Glad to have helped, Jhamez84 20:09, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Towns, villages, districts in Greater Manchester

I see you have been round several of the articles describing the various bits of Greater Manchester, and have changed some of the categories, eg Chorlton-on-Medlock has changed from a town to a district. Several of these articles have intrigued me for some time - quite how Hazel Grove is a village in anyone's eyes is beyond me, for instance - and I would like to know what criteria you are applying. Does the town/village/district/suburb have any 'correct' or 'official' definition, either here (WP) or in UK usage? Just interested. Regards, Mr Stephen 11:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Apologies if I'm incorrect... I was giving the Greater Manchester articles a bit of a tidy up. I've largely gone by what the description says in the article. For instance, Hazel Grove was described as a village near Stockport... I simply added the link at the bottom 'villages in Greater Manchester' Cheers User:DShamen 12:01, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

No need to apologise at all, I'm in the dark myself on this one. Nice work BTW. Mr Stephen 11:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Place of birth categories

Please look carefully at these cats before you change them. Each town is a subcat of its modern borough, which is itself a subcat of its modern county. However, most people in these cats were not born in Merseyside or Greater Manchester. They were born in Lancashire, and identified themselves as natives of Lancashire. To change them to being only natives of Merseyside or GM is a revisionist denial of centuries of history and is utterly inaccurate. I have put a lot of work into this and for someone to come along and change them without discussion is frankly highly irritating. What I'm trying to do is give each person only a single place of birth cat instead of the range they currently have. It is ludicrous and just plain wrong to say that a person born in 1800 (or even 1970) was born in Greater Manchester when they clearly weren't! -- Necrothesp 17:18, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah... don't take it the wrong way, I changed them as at this moment in time these towns / districts are part of Merseyside and Greater Manchester, as much as I admittedly dislike them being. I know well enough that before 1974 neither county existed. User:DShamen 14:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I know why you changed them, but the fact is still that most of the people categorised were not born in GM or Merseyside. From reading your exchanges above it's obvious you're not a revisionist, but there seem to be a lot of people here who would like to imply that these towns were never in Lancashire, which is blatantly rubbish. Thirty years of being in another county doesn't cancel out hundreds of years of being in Lancashire.

I note that you've readded Category:Natives of Greater Manchester to several of the town cats. Note that they were and are still categorised under Natives of GM or Natives of Merseyside, since each is in the 'People from' cat (e.g. Category:People from Oldham) applicable to its modern borough, which is itself a subcat of Category:Natives of Greater Manchester or Category:Natives of Merseyside. I don't think it needs to be in both the cat and the subcat - usual Wikipedia policy is not to catgeorise in both a cat and a subcat. The boroughs are now unitary authorities anyway, so Greater Manchester and Merseyside have no useful existence, and to be honest I think their usage will wither and die before long. -- Necrothesp 14:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

That's fair enough. It's also a rarity that you see post with Bolton, Greater Manchester or Oldham, Greater Manchester on it, and I can't recall ever meeting anyone from either town who professes to live in 'Greater Manchester'. User:DShamen 10:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't blame them. I technically live in the West Midlands (Coventry), but as far as I'm concerned I live in Warwickshire. There do seem to be some fanatics here who insist on only using the modern counties, even for historical articles, though, which is why I get wound up by it. Cheers. -- Necrothesp 09:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Another point... places like Lees (near Oldham) are now listed under the 'People by city in England' category... as it is basically a village on the outskirts of Oldham I wondered whether this section should be renamed/recategorized.

DShamen 10:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it probably should. I think the cat was created for consistency with similar cats in other countries (e.g. USA), where the difference between cities and towns was less obvious - it's always included towns as well as cities. -- Necrothesp 13:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi again,

Just a quick note to let you know that whilst your efforts on the category front are very much appreciated, please be mindful of whether to include Category:Natives of Lancashire, or Category:Natives of Greater Manchester.

I noticed some of your edits made on October 4th, and then noticed some of the comments above. Given your statements, I would urge you to read carefully through the Official Wikipedia naming conventions which outline (based upon consensus and law) that we should use the modern metropolitan counties as counties and a geographic reference frame on Wikipedia articles.

Whilst this does not cover birth places in depth, it is largely agreed within the editing community to edit within the spirit of this convention and use the appropriate counties for the appropriate year of birth.

That said, I've altered some of your categories to Natives of Greater Manchester if they are born post 1974; they were however, only few in number!

Whilst many in Greater Manchester are both confused with and don't identify with the modern county (most probably because of the Royal Mail blunder not to change thier postal system for this area!), in other parts of the country it is considered best practice and even natural to use the modern system, and thus the conventions are an effort to provide consistency, and the least amount of upset.

Thanks again, hope that helps somewhat. Keep up the good work. Jhamez84 16:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Please note that WP policy is not to categorise in both a category and a sub-category. So "People from Ashton-under-Lyne" is a subcat of "Natives of Lancashire". It is not therefore necessary to also include the latter category - if they were born in Ashton they were obviously born in Lancashire (or Greater Manchester, but both are provided for). Also, when categorising people, put the surname after a pipe, otherwise they'll be categorised by their first name. Thanks. -- Necrothesp 21:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Richard Bancroft of Farnworth

I note that his birthplace has been like a yo-yo between Widnes and Bolton. Your last edit was to Bolton. In fact he was born in Farnworth, once a village in south Lancashire; now part of the town of Widnes. The evidence for this is in the parish records of St Luke's, Farnworth, Widnes which records his christening in 1544. Also he went to the grammar school founded by Bishop William Smyth in the village. I have created a stub for Farnworth, Widnes and edited the text accordingly. Peter I. Vardy 16:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah that's fair enough. The only Farnworth I know is the one near Bolton... I (wrongly) assumed it was this one. Glad you've cleared this up. Cheers User:DShamen 16:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not in Oldham

Hi, can you please note that neither Shaw and Crompton or Failsworth are in Oldham.

Take a look at the Geography and administration section of the Oldham article. You will see a map showing Oldham (the town - highlighted in red) within the Metropolitan Borough of Oldham, thus highlighting the difference. The same can be seen on the Shaw and Crompton article, in the section of the same name. If you want other examples visit the Metropolitan Borough of Oldham article and the map is even numbered and labelled to help avoid confusion.

The fact that the postal town for (parts of) these areas is OLDHAM does not mean they themselves are in Oldham - this is the place of the Royal Mail postal sort centre - which as you are no doubt aware, is in Glodwick, Oldham (though most of Failsworth forms part of the MANCHESTER postal area - because it recieves its mail from Newton Heath, Manchester).

Yes we all say casually that these areas are in Oldham, but, this is an encyclopedia where we are required to write to the highest of academic standards. Geography is a contentious issue on Wikipedia, and sticking by these guidelines will see the smallest amount of angst from other users! Jhamez84 02:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I understand this totally, as I have a very keen interest in geography... I assume that this is in reference to the band 'N-Trance'... as the band were formed by O'Toole and Longworth at The Oldham College... that would suggest to me that they were formed in Oldham... hence the reason I included it. Anyway, no worries. User:DShamen 15:22, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invite

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