Talk:DrunkDuck

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Contents

[edit] Archive of old/outdated comments

Archive of Drunkduck talk page

[edit] VfD results

This article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep, cleanup. For details, please see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/DrunkDuck. -- BD2412 talk 04:44, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the criticism section

Everything in there needs to be sourced (see WP:RS). I removed the sprite comics section because not only was it unsourced, it also didn't conform to WP:NPOV. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 02:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

The physical sources for the history information in the crit section was all lost when the site crashed last year. Someone needs to get Dylan to verify that this information is correct; I think that would be sufficient sourcing. --RadariG 15:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Comics?

I'm not exactly sure why this is needed, other than to promote the comics within. I know that some of them are arguably notable, but I don't think we have an adequate definition of what makes them so. Lack of a definitive guideline will make it impossible to govern the list. Besides, the site already has several "ranking" lists that may serve this purpose. --RadariG 19:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screenshots

If anyone can find better screenshots for the two previous versions of the front page, by all means do. Waybackmachine only works so well for me, sigh. --RadariG 20:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable comics removed

I'm getting tired of having to remove questionable content from this list, so I removed the whole thing. Honestly, I don't see the point of including it; the only comic that I thought belonged on the entry was GoAK due to Ronson's work as a founder and admin. I'll try to write that into the entry somewhere so that the information is present, but the list just invites spam linkage that clutters the bottom of the entry.

If enough actual Drunkduck comics (not drunkduck mirrorsites) come up with wiki entries for themselves, which would indicate a level of notability, we could organize them into a webcomics subcategory and link to that from the Drunkduck entry. So if you like/write a comic that you feel is notable (and will pass a wiki review as such), make an article for it and post the link on the talk page so that I can tie them all together. --RadariG 19:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

It would also help if the webcomic wiki entries were not being so viciously pruned. For example, the article for Charby the Vampirate has been deleted twice in the last 6 months. Agreed, it probably technically meets the requirements for a Vote For Deletion (not deletion) as it has not been written up on an independent 3rd-party site (apart from Comixpedia), or published in dead tree format. But surely being among the top 5 stories since even before the relaunch at the beginning of 2006 must count for something?
And you wonder why followers of DrunkDuck comics seem not to want to submit content to Wikipedia? --Aclapton 01:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Updates

I've been meaning to add/clean up this article but I've never had the time. It's been weeks now since I had that intention. So instead of waiting until God-knows-when, I'm just going to dump a series of sources here and maybe someone else would have the time to fit it into the article nicely. - Black Kitty 20:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The New York Times article on Platinum Studios acquiring DrunkDuck:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/technology/25comics.html?ex=1316836800&en=53a88484c176636f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

The press releases/sources for Top Cow Productions using DrunkDuck to launch web versions of its comics:
http://www.topcow.com/download/press/49
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=90899
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8877

The comics in question are:
Freshmen - http://www.drunkduck.com/Freshmen/
Witchblade - http://www.drunkduck.com/Witchblade/
The Darkness Compendium - http://www.drunkduck.com/The_Darkness_Compendium

Here are various other things that have happened that may be notable:
- The Quack is no longer updating and is pretty much dead.
- Starving Artist and Fusion though are two other examples of successful community projects. Starving Artist is mainly organized by webcartoonist Inkmonkey and is basically a round robin comic activity. Fusion is like a comic jam where each artist would draw one panel based on the previous panel they were given. Fusion is organized by Tyrapendragon .
http://www.drunkduck.com/Starving_Artists
http://www.drunkduck.com/Fusion
- I often do a news recording of DD news for The Gigcast on a weekly basis. A list of links to the most recent Gigcast releases are featured on the front page of DrunkDuck. http://gigcast.nightgig.com/
- There are various Platinum Studios comics being hosted on DrunkDuck. One of them is the companion piece to the winnning entry for The Comic Book Challenge, Hero by Night. Another is Bird and Worm.
http://www.drunkduck.com/Bird_and_Worm
http://www.drunkduck.com/Hero_By_Night_Diaries/
- There are also background information that might be helpful on the website. They can be found here:
http://www.drunkduck.com/contact.php

For the update, I would suggest simplifying things right down and getting rid of the specific features of the different versions. The attributes I feel that are most important to cover are:
1.) A brief history and origin,
2.) A broad description of the current service and purpose of the site,
3.) Notes on what makes the service unique (the active community and continued active efforts to enhance it, the arrival of professional published comics),
4.) The Platinum buyout and its implications.
...Notes on the voting systems and criticisms applying to it are no longer applicable to the site in its current state and have not been for quite some time. This is nothing now but irrelevant history. Anyway, that's just my suggestion for how things should go. If I have time I will do it all myself.OzoneO 00:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Definitely agree on that. Keeping it simple would also make it easier to source. - Black Kitty 02:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up

I've started to clean up the article in sections and began with the Service part. What I wrote concentrated purely on what DrunkDuck currently has to offer (so I didn't mention Personal Portal which was a service offered in the previous incarnation of DD.) I also chose not to write down every single thing that DD has to offer but instead mentioned the highlights.

I also took out The Quack and replaced it with Comic Review. The Quack is no longer updating and Comic Review, while monitered by two moderators, was created and run by the community itself. Fightsplosion is still going on. --Black Kitty 03:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kyo

On March 18, 2007, users of Drunk Duck awoke to find the front page vandalized with images that read "Kyo has haxor'd your soup".[7] IS NOT VANDALISM. THIS HAPPENED.--Adam Fisher-Cox (criticize or compliment) 20:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Just because something happened doesn't mean it's not vandalism. This is like going to the Dave Chappelle page and adding "On Friday, March 26, 2005, a man going by the name 'Big Jeff' purposely spilled his drink on Chappelle, then proceeded to high-five his friend'. Yeah, it happened. But it's not something worth archiving.

I'm afraid a hijack is not the same as spitting in somebodies drink. It is an important piece in the site history, and it should be added.

No, it's not. And if you ask any mod or admin for Wikipedia they'll tell you the same thing. This was a minor annoyance that affected a few pages of Drunkduck for a few minutes. If the site had been completely destroyed or any permanent effects had occured, then it would be a part of the "site history". This is the equivalent of an admins mischievous little brother using the family computer to use their siblings' account and post a dirty picture. Inkmonkeywoodis 22:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, more than a few minutes. The site was disfigured for at least a half hour, possibly even 45 minutes. Also, he banned several users. It looked like a heck of a mess to clean up. Eddygazilion 22:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

By my standards, a half hour to 45 minutes is a "few minutes". Look, it was a cute little exploitation of a hole in security, but that's it. Passwords have been stolen before, and each case of it doesn't need to be reported, even if the password of someone of authority is taken too. The only reason this would be added is by the hacker himself to prove his 'notoriety' to his friends. For a serious article, this is just superfluous information, and the mere fact that any of us are even bothering to debate it is laughable. If every silly prank that had been inflicted on Drunkduck was added to its wiki entry, then it would be twice as long. Inkmonkeywoodis 23:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I would just like to point out that the anonymous user (IP 213.39.174.210) matches Kyo's IP. So as Inkmonkeywoodis suggested, this was just some information the "hacker" himself put in to prove his "notoriety" to his friends. The Wikipedia article isn't the place for that. Black Kitty 23:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

What do you have against leaving other people's messages staying up? -bling

Kyo Doesn't Even Have Friends. -some idiot

...Dude, if Kyo had no friends why would we defend him? Why delete Beany's comment? What do you have against people's opinions? -bling

PLEASE STOP DELETING THE KYO ARTICLE. It is not vandalism. Taken from Wikipedia's Vandalism rules: Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. Thank you. -bling

I dispute the good faith part. It was not done in good faith. This particular addition to the article was done by Kyo and his friends to promote themselves and their destructive activity. They are merely seeking attention (the insertion of his website's URL every so often is not that different from the vandalism done to this article in the past.) Black Kitty 01:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how I see it's vandalism, or done in bad faith - it actually happened, and it's significant enough to create multiple references to it, on SmackJeeves, and elsewhere. The links to Kyo's site is only to prove that it happened, since it seems threads referencing the attack are being deleted on Drunk Duck. If you want, I can find the links from other sites that mention it, but I do not have the time right now. Also, the XSS employed in the attack is a large vulnerability that should probably be fixed. I'm putting it back, and if you actually find a legitimate reason to remove it, post it here. Eddygazilion 02:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty aware of those threads. And the threads on SmackJeeves. From what I was told, the vulnerability was already fixed. That's why it only happened for an hour at most. I don't see how this is sigificant beyond the people who actually did the hacking and cheered for it. (Whom you can find on this talk page.) That was my account that was hacked and I don't even find it significant. Black Kitty 02:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

A very legitimate reason to remove it has already been made: the event wasn't notable enough for inclusion in a wikipedia page. It was a minor hack that lasted all of 30 minutes. If anything the activity on the wikipedia page in response to it is, in fact, more notable. The only reason anyone would have it in a wikipedia entry is to "legitimize" the hacker responsible. Web sites get hacked; it happens. Unless some kind of permanent effect occurs because of it, then it's not worth putting into the article. As it stands the whole thing was just a publicity stunt on kyo's part, and the edits to the wikipedia article are an extension of that stunt. If it's not 'vandalism' by the strictest observance of wikipedia's definition, it is still definitely not something that deserves to be on the page. Inkmonkeywoodis 02:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Now that people remotely associated with Kyo have been banned from DD makes it significant. It has a lasting effect.

Only two people have had their account frozen and their connection is not "remote." Given how they think it's so awesome that my account was hacked into and the site vandalized, I don't see how this is such a big deal even to them. The only "lasting effect" this whole thing had was on Kyo and his friends. Black Kitty 02:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

If I were to steal someone's comic and post it on DrunkDuck, I would get banned. But just because one or more person can no longer access the website does not make that fact significant. The fact that anyone is continuing to argue for its inclusion is just sad; you'll just as much convince anyone who doesn't just want to give kyo a "pat on the back" by proving his silly prank wasw "signigant" that this was an event important enough for inclusion on the DD page as you are to convince me that the ground is up and I've been walking upside down all this time. Inkmonkeywoodis 02:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Where does it say in the DD rules that laughing at misfortune gets you a ban?

This isn't a debate about the management of Drunkduck, this is a debate about whether or not a short-lived prank is noteworthy enough to be included on a wikipedia article (it's not). Inkmonkeywoodis 02:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed it isn't. So all I'm going to say is that if you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate in contacting one of the admins of the site. It doesn't have to be me, it can be someone else. Black Kitty 02:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

May I, Kyo, have a word in this? I didn't put it up. I put it up again, because somebody removed it.

Which you shouldn't have, because that was just self-promotion. Inkmonkeywoodis 19:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

It is NOT self promotion! It is something big and should be noted! - SSA

What was "big" about it? The fact that an image was posted? Or that some very temporary bannings were performed? The only lasting effect of this is the fact that Kyo and his close friends are insisting to people that it was important. If you want to 'spread the word' about how 'awesome' and 'important' your friend's abuse of coding is, there are means of doing it. But don't pretend that it was in any way a significant part of Drunkduck's history. Inkmonkeywoodis 20:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

So being HAX0R'D doesn't matter AT ALL? Just a normal drunkduck day? Thats a whole world of wrong. Is it that hard to let us put an article on this? It's a big deal. - SSA

Kyo hacked into my account with a script he found online. My account has the ability to edit the FAQ, put up newsposts, put up featured comics, and freeze users. But it does not have access to the site itself and as demonstrated, all those changes were reversible within an hour. I don't even have the ability to change people's passwords. So the only thing compromised was my account and not the DrunkDuck site itself.
I don't know why you people think it's such a big deal. In fact you haven't quite exactly explained why. You just keep saying variations of "it's a big deal." Does the rest of the webcomic world know? Does the rest of them care? Black Kitty 20:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's a good point. In fact, just using the term "hacking" seems to give this more signifigance than it deserves. In reality this is a case of a password being stolen. The "site" was not hacked; the password to a "more powerful than most" user account was misappropriated. The site admin easily undid all the damage done in minutes, and then spent time doing important, though regular, security upgrades. In a very real sense, nothing happened. No credible webcomics news organization reported on the incident, and the only signifigance that is given to it is by individuals on forums. Inkmonkeywoodis 23:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

What the fuck? I didn't find the script on the internet... thats ridiculous! you can't just google XSS and have the ability to use a script on any site. every site needs its own XSS. as your site protected itself from the word cookie, so i found a way around that. I could do it again, I've found more exploits. I'm afraid that you are an idiot.

Please try to stay relevent to the points of the actual argument. How you got Black Kitty's password and your implied threats of future abuse of coding aren't what this sort of discussion is for Inkmonkeywoodis 00:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to lay it out plain and simple and unless something new comes up, I'm not responding to it anymore because I'll be repeating myself. Whether you got the code or made up the code (or whatever) does not change the fact that you hacked into MY account. It does not change the fact that MY account had limited functions and CANNOT access the site itself. And it does not change the fact that unless someone can come up with an incredibly good reason otherwise, it is not significant enough to be written about in the DrunkDuck Wikipedia article. How you did it would not change the significance of this matter as this article isn't about Kyo but about DrunkDuck. Black Kitty 01:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

You know, i edited your account to have all rights...

I'm going to join Black Kitty on this. If you want to talk about the specifics of how the XSS exploit was utilized and what you 'could' have done if you had been so inclined or what you 'could' do to the site even now (apparently), then find somewhere appropriate to discuss it. This page is for discussing whether or not the Kyo incident was important enough to Drunk Duck to include in the wikipedia page. Just as a reminder, the fact that two or three people were banned as a result does not count as a "permanent effect". The fact that an admin lost control of her account for a very brief period is not an important part of the site's history. Basically all of the arguments for the indident's inclusion have been not only very minor, but for the most part added by close friends of Kyo, who clearly aren't concerned with the quality of the DD article so much as making their friend feel good about himself and his ability to "hax0r". Inkmonkeywoodis 02:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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